By NOELLE NICOLLS
A sermon delivered by Dr Myles Munroe, president and founder of the Bahamas Faith Ministries International (BFMI), has been making its way around the social sphere generating a lot of debate. I watched the video because it was shared by a close friend, even though the online group “Meeting In The Ladies Room” posted it with a message stating: “All Ladies Regardless Of Marital Status Should Watch This!”
After watching the sermon the first, second, third and fourth time, with an open mind, I still could not bring myself to understand, why and how so many women were giving it rave reviews. One woman declared the message to be “profound and powerful!!”. Another woman said: “Amazing word. I can’t wait to show this to my sons.” And yet another called for the message to be played on a “bull horn”. She said it was so “absolutely wonderful” the mighty word had to get out.
I was completely perplexed by these responses, because the same sermon that brought these women to a spiritual orgasm made me want to go out gunning to slay the wolf. I was not completely alone, although certainly in the minority, for there were a handful of dissenting voices amongst the faithful flock who thought the message was outright offensive.
Dr Munroe’s sermon speaks to the story of Adam and Eve, the first marriage in history, according to the Christian creation story, and shares lessons on the role of men and women in relationships.
In the words of Dr Munroe: “The third thing God told the man - Genesis 2:15 - is cultivate. Cultivate means to bring out the best in everything around you, to maximise the potential of everything around you, to make everything fruitful. He only said that to the male. That is why God will never give a man a finished woman.
“The male was created by God to create what he wants. The woman you are looking for, brother, does not exist. She is in your head. Your job is to take the raw material you married and cultivate her into the woman in your head. So if you have been married for 20 years and you still don’t like the product you get, that is your fault,” said Dr Munroe.
When are we going to move away from following doctrines that make women objects in a man’s world. Not only is Dr Munroe explicit in referring to a wife as a product of her husband, he says men are entitled by divine decree to create the women they want.
Such is the conditioning that occurs in abusive relationships, where men tell their women what clothes to wear, how to style their hair, the friends they can maintain and the places they can go. These are the conditions that foster relationships of power and control, the foundation of all abuse. And while the message is gendered in Dr Munroe’s context, it has broader meaning in the context of healthy relationships, because the same doctrine applied in reverse creates the same conditions for abuse.
Speaking about Jesus’ relationship to his wife, Dr Munroe said: “Jesus Christ is a real man, a real man. He has a wife, a beautiful woman. Her name was Ecclesia. He said about his wife, he said husband love your wife like I love my wife. He tells us how to do it. He says you wash her with the word, and then you remove every spot, every wrinkle, every blemish and then present her to yourself. That is mine, I did that. I produced that. Look at her. Look at her. That’s my baby.”
Our leaders need to start using language to affirm the value of men and women and their equal standing in the eyes of God; to affirm the individuality of every man and woman. Our leaders need to consider the way in which their language socialises impressionable young girls and boys, who are trying to negotiate gender relationships in their youth. His message is dangerous not only because it objectifies women, but also because it lays the foundation for the subjugation of women.
Patriarchal religious doctrines have been used for centuries as reason to deprive women of their individual freedoms, and we must never forget. Male interpretations of religious texts have been used to justify some of the most persistent and pervasive human rights abuses. And while organised religion has evolved since its brutish origins, the church has not shed all of its misguided ways.
It is in the language used by church leaders like Dr Munroe that we see those lingering remnants of the patriarchal order, in which robbed men “twisted and distorted holy scriptures to perpetuate their ascendant positions within the religious hierarchy”. It is this language that often provides the foundation and justification for the abuse of women throughout the world.
Human rights activist Jimmy Carter, the former US president, recently spoke to this very issue when he stated emphatically, along with elders from many faiths: “The justification of discrimination against women and girls on grounds of religion or tradition, as if it were prescribed by a higher authority, is unacceptable.
“At their most repugnant, the belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men excuses slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime. But it also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities.”
In Dr Munroe’s sermon, he speaks about God placing man in his presence. He was not referring to man in the sense of the human race, but rather men, represented in Adam. Eden, as in the Garden of Eden, he said represents an environment, a place of divine presence, an open door to God, where Adam was placed.
Dr Munroe further described the spiritual hierarchy that exists between man, woman and God. Referencing scripture, he said God also gave the man his word. When God commanded Adam not to “touch the tree (of knowledge)”, God never spoke to Eve. The significance, Dr Munroe suggested, is that the male is the only one to have been blessed by God with the word (a direct relationship to God). A wife, though she too is created in the image and likeness of God, has to wait to be taught by her husband, for only he stands in God’s presence and was blessed by the word.
In response to a lonely dissenter on the video feed, one faithful follower wrote: “If you find this appalling or offensive don’t read the Bible.” Part of me believes there is wisdom in her response. Another part of me wants to believe there is hope for women of the Christian faith who reject male interpretations of holy scriptures that establish gender hierarchies and justify the superiority of men.
I will certainly question any doctrine that creates a foundation and justification for the abuse of women throughout the world, no matter how divinely ordained the messenger claims to be.
Noelle Nicolls is the Tribune Features Editor. Her Watchwoman column explores genders issues in politics and culture from a feminist perspective. Follow Noelle online at Twitter.com/noelle_elleon.
Comments
dfitzerl 11 years, 1 month ago
Is it possible that you view the presentation with a particular bias?
The context of the presentation is not about rulership but relationship and responsibilities. Most of the best CEOs in the world never give an order, yet they are the head of their company. It is their job to be responsible for and encourage/challenge the organization they lead to develop and succeed. Not force it to. But they are the ones who have to answer to their Boards/Shareholders. Submit is a cuss word to todays woman even though in biblical terms it simply means to respect. It has nothing to do with "value" but everything to do with "roles". You go on your job and submit to your supervisor who has been given responsibility for you but you do not think that it is proper to submit to your husband who is given responsibility for you and your family IF (big word) he is in submission to God himself. Neither of these is suppose to be unconditional submission. They are both conditional on the appointed person acting in accordance with the laws and principles of the organization they are apart of. If you don't understand the principles God expects the husband to operate under I can understand why you may reject the idea of him (or anyone else) being your leader. I don't hear anyone complaining about the role called "mother" that God appointed to women. We all accept it as appropriate. No man feels less equal because he is not apointed to the role of mother by God.
Additionally, there is nothing in God's word "that creates a foundation and justification for the abuse of women throughout the world". God is all about unconditional love (agape). He challenges us to love (agape) our neighbours (especially our wives, even to die for them). His word says that if we do that we will have fulfilled all His laws for love (agape) can not create harm.
I respectively suggest that the individual statements you highlight should be read in the context of the entire message and not as messages of the own and not from the perspective that they make women less equal.
brich30039 11 years, 1 month ago
I totally agree. I see you mentioned abusive and abusive relationships, but left out the fact that he clearly spoke out against abuse in the same video. Not trying to over-assume here, but I think your view in your article represents one of a considerable portion of women in today's society. Munroe's and the bible's views on men and their roles does not by comparison make women second or subservient to them. The example of presenting the woman to yourself can in this context be equivalent to loving others as you love yourself. The emphasis is not supposed to be on the "to yourself", but on how you treat and love her. If her weight is an issue, either be willing to get up with her and work at it instead of complaining, starting to have wandering eyes, or just shut up and accept it.
I struggle with my girlfriend now in trying to get her to understand the concept of allowing the man to be the head of the household, but also being one with him at the same time. There is no hierarchy, there's just oneness. When a male makes any decision, not that he has to or should have to make all of them, if he truly loves and is one with his woman his decision will be the one that his wife would have made or agreed with.
Emilia 5 years ago
Amen This lady must go deep/understand the word of God.
jerimiah 10 years, 11 months ago
I am a female that attended BFM for over 15 years. I know that followers there are like followers of any cult-like leader, they can not see any wrong or they rationalize them away. Many woman have lost their jobs there or were disciplined after getting pregnant for married men, Whiles men are 'counseled' & patted on the back. I got attacked for reporting the married security officers who were hitting on the school girls that worked with me there. Myles preached a message to encourage the men, saying that if a married man is looking outside the home for sex then it is the fault of the wife who is not providing what he needs. People were told to stop speaking to me after that & they spread the rumor that I was a lesbian. They constantly told women to stay with abusive husbands until one was killed. The media attention landed on them as this couple was in charge of marriage counseling class. A weird move they make in such circumstances to say that a person especially male (who has money) who has fallen in some open scandal has a 'ministry' through experience in that area to others. The media response was an outright lie when they said they always told women to leave if they are being abused. I know personally a woman who was a friend who was not only being abused but so was her daughter, sexually, they gave the man a job & told her to stay with him.
Roofbreaker 10 years, 10 months ago
I am sorry this is your experience at such a wonderful Ministry. But in my opinion this is happening at every church, work environment, school etc the list goes on. God uses imperfect people to accomplish his purpose. The message is not bad because Jesus nor Myles for that fact does not babysit grown men and women all day every day when they themselves make the choice to do wrong. You cannot place a X on a whole ideal because you see men and women handle the information without seriousness. Many people like me take that information and use it to their best ability. It is like saying one School is better then another. When really it is about WHAT YOU get out of it. You cannot blame people around you at school for your Failing grades! Right? Nope. It is your personal responsibility no matter what is going on around you to succeed. I knew a young woman who's parents were into heavy drugs, they abandoned her and she was raised with a family member who's household was not very stable also. BUT..The young lady finished high school with A's and received a full scholarship to school and is now a teacher working on her doctorate. Myles Munroe's own background is much the same you should know that how poor he was raised and is now influencing nations. This is not to be taken lightly. You should GET what you CAN out of this ministry and rise up to be the best that you can be. The message is not bad just the people so therefore you keep your eyes focused on the goal and that is your purpose and calling. Don't be discouraged by the bad apples. Appreciate your present circumstance because I would love to be a part of Myles Munroe Ministry. We have NO church's remotely teaching about the Kingdom here in the states. Your blessed...walk in it and see your blessing. SEE the GOOD!! God bless
Nancy 10 years, 2 months ago
Thank you Jerimiah for sharing your 15 year experience with this "ministry." Your voice may be in the minority on this blog, but it is important for people to share their experiences in order that others can become aware of what is happening "behind the scenes." Please tell others not to keep silent if they have a story to share. However, please do not hold it against those who will not share. They are only trying to protect themselves and we cannot blame them for this.
Roofbreaker 10 years, 10 months ago
I have been listening to Myles Munroe for 17 years. The very first sermon I heard was Singleness. It was a life changing message and concept to me because of the idea of being single and not understanding your purpose in your singleness was not understood in Christianity let alone in the secular world. Myles Munroe is not influencing dinky little fly by night ministries. He is influencing and interacting with Governments, Presidents and officials of the United Nations. God is obviously moving in His life because His fruit is there and The Lord said: you will know them by their fruit. I don't see bad fruit being produced from this ministry. If you can walk away from Myles Munroe's Ministry distraught and damaged, then I think you have a problem not his ministry. His message is positive, and encourages you as a woman or man to seek what you were born to do. As a woman who understands my role and position on this earth and in my household I find it hard to be offended by my husband investing in me to become a better me. Which he has so wonderfully done. Myles wife is not a underdog and toy or "weird science" Barbie doll Myles Munroe has formed. Myles Munroe's message has been to bring out what was already present and help one discover it and recognize it. Everyone is already built with their purpose and Myles is helping you to recognize what that is. He is helping husbands to aid their wives to become that also because women can get weighed down by losing themselves in the family and as a wife feeling empty with no purpose. My husband and I love BFM Ministries and have discovered our purpose and helped us to get it in motion. Many are not that blessed to have done that. They are still robotic soldiers who do nothing more but become an usher, or choir member for life and doing nothing but going from home to church and feeling empty in their Christian Journey. I think that one message you have heard is not enough for you to judge an entire ministry. You need to listen to more messages and also listen to Myles Munroe's wife. She is an eloquent, confident, purposeful women of God who speaks with authority in her own position on this earth. She is not under any ones thumb but respects and understands her true character and purpose in this life along side her husband being a true essence of a perfect example of a help meet. I am blessed everyday and praise God that when I feel hopeless I hear God using Myles to continue to remind me that the most important thing I will ever do in my life is "Seeking First Gods Kingdom" if you have not read "Rediscovering the Kingdom" I recommend you do so. God bless. The grave yards are full of great Men and Women who never become great because they did not give their ability responsibility. MYLES MUNROE
http://thetribune.media.clients.ellin...">Hope you read this... by Roofbreaker
Nancy 10 years, 2 months ago
To Roofbreaker; maybe your name says it all? Don't know about you, but I like a roof over my head and Mr. Munroe has "bought" into the "I" doctrine message that is leading many astray. There is nothing wrong with one striving to reach his/her potential, but what does this have to do with Jesus Christ and his saving grace. BFM sounds like another ministry that is making merchandise out of men's souls. And, if they are, maybe they don't realize it. Maybe they are deceived? And if they are, you are not helping them one iota by lending them "praise."
Roofbreaker 10 years ago
One thing about life Nancy is you have to ASK people their intent and what they are about, but I can see you draw your judgement and conclusions without much research or questions. I call myself Roofbreaker because I take it from the scripture Mark 2:4 which denotes "never giving up". Instead of doing what you're called to do and in that calling which can reach and help people come to the Kingdom of God and reach their Purpose to do Gods will your in the business to tear it down. Remember their are 100's of thousands of people who are tearing down society and influencing people to SIN daily through music and television as well as everything else sinful man can think of. YET, here you are..and You want to lead people to stay away from finding out what they are called to do and do it for the Kingdom of God because?? Why again? "I" is in it? who else are we suppose to change first? The point is if I don't change then what? Who else should "I" influence first to change others?? Many people can't help becoming jealous of success, but it's sad when it is among believers. If discovering my purpose and leading others to the Kingdom of God is bad then what church do you go to. Instead of talking about millions of things that are seriously taking others to hell, you want to bash someone who is actually doing something great in life. SAD!
PROVERBS31 5 years, 4 months ago
Absolutely WELL SAID. TO read and listen with bias will sure enough produce misunderstand and misconception. Without the Holy Spirit it is impossible to reap the fruits of what is delivered in each message Dr Myles teaches. Well said my sister. I hope our dear sister who raised her concern prays for understanding don't receive a message because of your pass or others pass experience this can block what you need to receive. The Kingdom Message is what Jesus taught and told us to teach 'this message' He said not all the others that people have become distracted with.
ernieham1 10 years, 9 months ago
I watch Myles Munroe every chance I get. I wish there was enough hours in a day for him to teach in the US & there...thank God for the internet!. We do not have this teaching of the Kingdom of God going on here in the states!!! I do not attend church just because I could never find real teaching; however, I do listen to Creflo Dollar for he is about the closes one can get to here about truth without preaching religion. I'm guilty of television ministry because when I read my bible I notice most churches are doing exactly what the Word says do not do & they are not doing what the Word says to do. Yet they have to be reading the same thing I'm reading or at least close to it. Now, listening to Dr. Munroe about the Kingdom, I see it not from a different perspective, but with deeper understanding & clarity base on his teaching of the concept of a king & kingdom alone with colonization...with this teaching I'm understanding more of not just to whom I belong to, but who I am, what I am & what all I can say, think & do because of my rites as a citizen of the Kingdom of God.
ernieham1 10 years, 9 months ago
I've always said I was no christian, but a child of God's..that had to be from knowing that christianity was just another form of religion& if we are to follow Christ he nevered practice religion...he went about praching, teaching speaking, healing, deliving helping & saving... there were no recordings of any religious rituals performed, so why did Paul keep performing them I dont know, maybe he was keeping with traditions as did the jewish religous people did. I know Dr. Myles Munroe is speaking the truth because that knowledge was in me & he brought confirmation unto me. These teaching is what was in me all the time stirring in me every time I went to visit a church or half attended the one I belonged to. I couldn't stand the theactric's & rituals & supposingly coming from a person "who was called". I needed truth & that is what I seek! It's not by accident I found Dr. Munroe, I was spirit lead to these teaching. Besides, one can not hear nor see the truth unless their eyes have been open via Jesus Christ revealing it. We who hear & see have been choosen too...Besides, don't just listen to Dr. Munroe accept Christ get into the Word as the Holy Spirit dwells in you & ask for the understanding of God's word and it will be given unto you if you believe. The Holy Spirit teaches you all things that Jesus tells him to reveal to you. Everybody can read the scriptures, but the understanding & wisdom of it comes with not just accepting Christ but the believing & receiving on him. Attending church often & saying "praised the lord is only giving lip service and attendence without the true living empowerment God's waiting to give one. Another thing is why go to church to sit up & worry about other people's business or what the men are doing when your real concern should be to dip in grab hold to the powerful message & cherish it like the treasure it is & run with it doing what God says you can do. I don't waste my time sitting in churches getting frustrated with the goings on in them for that stuff is in every church. Remember everyone that says Lord Lord... I'm into the message & if I can't see my way to hearing & detecting the sermon is being spirit lead I'm out of there.. I listen to Dr. Munroe as a Prophet & Advisor, that's it anything else about him is between him & God...he is as human as the rest of us....He is made perfect in God's eyes via Jesus Christ like I am, but he is human too. I shall not let his faults stop me from receiving the hidden treasures that I seek because the thoughts of a righteous man are right & I chose this avenue of fellowship, online!
Bahamianpride 10 years, 9 months ago
He is referring to men of God.. Abuse of women is not the nature of emotionally healthy men, it is a product of mental illness.. If u look at the titanic when it sunk they put women and children on the life boats first and many men went down in the frozen ocean, no one question whether that was abusive to men.. if u look at wars men die women stayed home protected. IF you look at health and longevity with living women outlive men, why because a man's value comes from doing, a Women is valuable just by being a women & her ability for sex and the production of offspring.. this why so many men identify themselves by what they do because they know this is the only way they will have value in society or to women.. This same women who writes this article if we would go out dinner would insist I pay because I'm a man or if the ship was sinking would insist she gets on first because she was a woman.. Or if we were under threat she would say stand up like a man and fight to save me.. The story of the white feather girls in europe during the 1st world war comes to mind they would run around throwing feathers of cowardice on men who would not enlist in a war that killed so many, but we never hear about these things.. So in conclusion her criticism of Dr. Monroe is unfounded by the facts of history or gender relations and only speaks to feminist propaganda because man throughout the history of society has always been the disposable less valued gender and women the treasured and protected gender because our survival depended on it.. Dr. Munroes wife ain't complaining, in fact she looks quit happy, not a suprise because real men treasure there women.. what Dr. MUNROE talks about is leadership not abuse, abuse is unGodly..
Roofbreaker 10 years ago
I so agree and just to note that just like Myles always says when purpose is not known abuse is inevitable. This blog writer obviously has no clue about her own purpose, so she must feel significant bashing others who do know.
PerfectPeace 9 years, 5 months ago
You are so right Bahamianpride.
pretrib 10 years, 9 months ago
It is very difficult to listen to preaching that is subjective and not factual. What is being implied is that the woman "Eve" did something that she was not authorized to do because of the "knowledge"argument", but Genesis 3 thells us that Adam was there. If Eve is really responsible why did God blame Adam? Dr.Munroe has a habit of saying things to get your attention, but his presentations tend to get out of hand; especially when a careful exegesis of scripture does not support some of his preaching or teaching. Those who preach anything that is "particular" outside of what has been revealed, will always preach what the Bible means to them, but we are not called to that. Human beings are called to "what it means", if you do not answer this question, what it means to you is irrelevant. Persons who go out on tangents, do not believe that every verse of scripture has only one meaning, it can have a thousand applications; and those of us who go about finding scripture to fit the applications we want to proclaim are in error. Have you wondered why the crowds are so large at some gatherings? A single verse or Bible story has been twisted to make a dubiuos application that attracts many and offends no one. The problem with putting the Gospel out there is that even the one proclaiming it is convicted when it is really Preached or Teached.
serahwakia 10 years, 3 months ago
The story of Eve and Adam as interpreted by Dr Munroe is I believe not completely correct. In the Bible it says God said unto the "Man", I believe when it says he said unto the man that he was refering to both the man and the woman. After all who is a woman? The woman was created from the man, the woman and the man are one. The woman was created from the man's rib ot from his posterior to follow him or from his anterior to lead him but from his side that they may walk hand in hand as equals. The rib positioned below the arm signifies that women should submit to their husbands and I say their "husband" and not "men". Man was created to rule over creation and this refers to both men and woman for woman was made from man. But a woman must submit to her husband and the Bible is very clear on this in Corinthians. To me it was the way the story of Eve and Adam was moralized by Dr Munroe that would be questionable.
Equalizzer 10 years, 1 month ago
The story of Adam and Eve is interpreted just fine by Dr. Monroe, I don't know why you, "ladies" want to change God first into Gender non-specific, doing away with "Father". Then you, want to be equal with men, which is perfectly fine, because you are. I don't believe God, Dr. Monroe, neither do I, mean you, or any woman harm, abuse, or malady. So please pack up your witch hunt, and aim it somewhere else. With the power of the typed, or printed word you possess, why not aim at Debeers, who has stolen 90% of the worlds diamonds from the richest continent in the world, where the poorest people live. Have not compensated any of the countries therein with a dime. Or, how they are killing our young men, and prosecuting our young Black Men, and Women, for the same crimes they let white men go free for. Wisdom says, pick your battles, this one my Lady is a poor choice on your part. Misplaced energy is wasted effort. Life is short, use it wisely.
Ik79 10 years, 1 month ago
I agree totally with Roofbreadker. And i wonder why critics are usually this way: they find it very easy to criticise a thing/person but never provide us an alternative. They are usually the most dangerous set of people because after disabusing the minds of innocent people (who seek God) they leave them empty, and since life does not abhor vacuums, those people who are now preys are destroyed on the long run. God uses men (or humans, for the sake of these critics) to bless mankind. God cannot work on earth without men's cooperation. HE couldn't even save the world without first becoming a man.
Niku 9 years, 8 months ago
The WATCHWOMAN is nothing but a power hunger watchdog with no purpose. the argument here is not about status, but it's about purpose and responsibilities. Your so called human rights is full of garbage. They (human rights) are the very bases of creating a chaotic society. You need to wake up and watch. Stop sleeping and pretend to be watching. Do you ever realise that Children discipline is interpreted as abuse by your so called Stingy human rights? You need to read and study your Bible. Most especially the book of Proverbs.
karrie 9 years, 8 months ago
That's just 200 years ago. Women equal men, history has told its word on that. Why do we have to go through this all over again? What's the purpose. This kind of philosophy will only create more problems between modern couples. It would be interesting to see what does Shery Philips, an expert in http://www.counsellorsheriphillips.com">relationship counselling in Vancouver think about this. It should give us few revelatory ideas on the matter.
DD87 9 years, 5 months ago
I'm not here to speak ill of the dead, since Dr. Myles Munroe died last evening. I will say this, though. It's amazing how Christians blindly follow these preachers, refusing to see any errors in what they preach. If only they'd give that unfailing faith and loyalty to Jesus himself.
ThisIsOurs 9 years, 5 months ago
Of all the comments made this is the only I agree with 100%, The standard is Jesus anything that deviates is wrong.
jmuthoka 9 years, 5 months ago
It is unfortunate that i dont know the bone of contention in the whole matter but is a short stint i think the meaning of the message is with the individual and the perspective we look at issues. The lives we go through sometimes makes us look at issues in a monotype a pprorach. The message in question was fantastic as long as you interpret things in a positive way. Lets not bring judgement where it is not there. May God bless you.
killemwitdakno 9 years, 5 months ago
His advocating anti gay during women's rights and meddling with the referendum on that ill relation was sure judgement against something not there, and that action perfectly aligned with this message of suppressing women. Most women in this country believe the man is the head of the household when in fact most households lack a man. Most teens in this country think a wife should sexually submit to her husband and therefore marital rape is not wrong. Wonder where they got that view of themselves, wonder where was the empowering their leadership when they voted against it before. Largest congregation.
BISHOPDDGALES 9 years, 5 months ago
I like your story but the problem I have is that I did not see the name of the sermon or a link to the video so I could see the sermon for myself. You must believe your readers are intelligent enough to see the evidence and agree with your stance or not.
jake1920 9 years, 5 months ago
Spiritual orgasm. Really? I mean, couldn't you think of another metaphor? A "spiritual" orgasm is not the kind I'm thinking about when I look at your gorgeous face. Sorry!
historian186 9 years, 5 months ago
Pastor Munroe was speaking about spiritual cultivation first and foremost. Secular people rarely if ever understand that Christ followers are spiritually reborn when they repent and accept Christ as their Lord and Saviour. He was speaking to those who walk in the ways of the Holy Spirit, (the spiritually reborn) and refuse to heed the dictates of their sinful flesh - Galatians 5:16. A man who does so would never unleash abusive behaviour on anyone, and definitely not his wife, because they become one flesh when married, and thus abuses himself when he abuses his wife. In the Christian home, spiritual harmony precedes physical harmony. It is only in Christ and the Holy Spirit that this will ensue, and it against this background, context and understanding that Dr Munroe spoke.
Naola 9 years, 5 months ago
I cannot believe some of the comment, did you people not listen to this sermon., Jesus had a wife? Which bible is he quoting from? I would really like to know.
Please people read your bible and stop letting people tell you half truth. Obviously dr Monroe never read proverb 31 , otherwise he would know that all that is really a brunch of crab. It is a shame that some women will fall for this type of talk and find it acceptable that a topic that is this blaspheming in what ever context you want to look at it just because it boast their low esteem and absolve them of any blame instead of them taking control of their lives.
karina 9 years, 4 months ago
Such words are bound to generate debate, she is basically treating women like objects. Women are not products they are human beings and they should not be subjected to any kind of experimentation. However, women too need to be aware themselves, but they give too much importance to superficial concepts like achieving a flawless look. Looking gorgeous has become an easier process for them because now they can access not only clothes and jewelry online but exclusive items like hair extensions too, which are available at places like http://customhairbycatherine.com/">http://customhairbycatherine.com.
Ibethinking 9 years, 3 months ago
We must be very careful who we give our worship to, God or man. Thank God for people like Jerimiah attending BFM for 15 year and willing to stand up for righteousness.
fearGod1 9 years, 3 months ago
No bible quotes no comment...No matter how strong your reasons might be if there are no bible passages to back up your points then I consider it carnal. Read the bible, study the bible and come up with your strong points of view. God bless Psalm
pkariuki 8 years, 3 months ago
NICOLLS, I agree its possible to misunderstand this sermon if you put particular emphasis on the quoted extracts of the sermon without taking similar consideration to the entire sermon and the entire theme. Even Apostle Paul can be misunderstood in 1 Timothy 2:11-13 where he says in his letter to Timothy "A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.…." that normally happen if you take the quote out of context and you have not taken time to read the other parts of scripture written by Paul such as Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." So that you get the entire doctrine.
You cannot read one verse and ran with it. you cannot listen to one sermon and be able to critique a pastor on that single sermon and weigh on particular piece of the sermon. I would rather you spend more time in the word of God, and remember God says " I am watching to make sure that my words come true it" Jeremiah 1:12.
Evil, violet men do not require to be taught by Munroe, they do not even watch that kind of stuff, there are enough teaching complete with graphics out there from the devils advocate to illustrate just how to mistreat their spouse and they can even take a good sermon and impute their own understanding to justify their violence toward women.
CyrusKN 6 years, 4 months ago
I would love to know your take on Gen 3:16, 1Corinthians11:8-9 and lots of other scriptures explaining the same. The problem with society today is carnal comparison leading to petty contention. In scriptures, a man has his duties clearly defined as the woman has hers and that was made so for the purpose of having dominion and ruler-ship here on earth. We have to accept that governance employs a system based on hierarchy in which all of us fit or should fit. 2Peter 10 even refers to people who despise and resist governance. I'm certain of it that if Jesus Christ was among us doing His Father's work today, there would be uproar as to why He didn't have a gender balanced group among the 12 He called. The Word of God states that it is of no private interpretation thereby every scripture means what it exactly says.
CyrusKN 6 years, 4 months ago
As you perhaps ponder over it, why not read through this. https://www.gotquestions.org/feminism...">https://www.gotquestions.org/feminism...
Oluwyse 5 years, 5 months ago
From your picture here, you.re way too young to understand Spiritual things and especially when you are not the teachable type but rather always wanting to have your own ways even when it has to do with scriptures-backed Word of God. What else can one tell you or how may one help you? You've already decided what you want and it could be catastrophic attempting to get you to see that the Bishop was appealing to men who kept messing around in the name of "they are yet to find the right woman" and not that he was calling women a toy in the hands of men who must be pummeled into what the man wants. here I see your kind of character and approach to issues. You're even the type that may not last in the hand of a reasonable man and perhaps that is happening to you right now because you are always eager to "say your piece of mind" when it is rather best to keep quiet and observe. The attached picture might help you further if you will look at it with a better open mind than that you claimed you used in watching the video of the message 4 good times yet missed the real thing
http://thetribune.media.clients.ellin...">WORD CONTROL by Oluwyse
Emilia 5 years ago
I pray that God will give you understanding and wisdom to recognize the truth. That God will give you a submissive heart to the Word of God and more understanding on the Biblical principles.
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