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5090 total votes
All the yes votes coming from the UK ? BPC shareholders ?
I hope the Tribune will investigate and expose all the IP address of the Yes votes.
Yea, like the fake anti oil petition bandied around Florida.
Im from the UK and I voted no. Why would people in the UK be in favour of this? Sorry im just a bit confused
Are you suggesting this poll could be like the environmentalists kill the drill petition that was circulated via WhatsApp outside the Bahamas?
Hey Bahama7 (Simon Potter - CEO of BPC) you’re not fooling anyone.
These kind of tactics are disgusting and offensive and surely even you are above this you absolute trash demon.
Meaning what ? Bpc is working for you and your government, you are 99% reliant on imported fossil fuels, bpc have been drilling for 3 weeks , has the world for you ended ? Not from the oil leak you fakers predict but from covid. Find oil stop importing 000s barrels of expensive oil and create wealth for all Bahamian and spend the profits on renewables so in 20 years your kids can be confident your oil saved the seas and bays by funding solar wind and biomass for the future https://youtu.be/zOfr54VbHE4">https://youtu.be/zOfr54VbHE4
Looks like the Bahamian people do want to flourish from the wealth of oil and stand together for a brighter future. Country in a debt they can’t repay, tourism collapsed due to Covid, for the next 5-10 years, time to make their future with the resource they have???
I wish I was an oil company executive... other end of the wealth spectrum unfortunately.
Oh so you’re just Potters paid troll then? Classy
Do you really wish to be a BPC exec? We are not taking about being an Exxon exec, but rather the dubious frontman for a slimy ponzi scheme designed to suck the wealth from both the Bahamas and its shareholders.
John James. Even if you are correct that UK residents are voting, the number of No votes doesn't indicate a groundswell of public opinion, does it? And who can say if those No votes aren't coming from overseas? Your comment cuts both ways.
Space - don’t be an idiot. The poll above shows that Bahamians want a new national industry. We can’t continue as we are.
“WE” don’t make me laugh,
Yes we are ready for a new national industry. One that doesn’t have the potential to destroy our marine ecosystem.
Why does it have to be oil drilling? There are other less harmful options available.
No Bahamian that understands the negative impacts of oil drilling supports this foolishness.
Yep you could become youtubers based on the next bitcoin. Embrace what you have , reap the rewards , use wisely , you are damaging the environment you live in by importing 99% of your energy in Giant tankers, lets get real and work together, people work together for a common good. Climate change will be made by the g10 , China us , India, eu . Bahamas can drive renewable from its revenues generated fro oil discover and saving costs on imported fossil fuels, be in control make a difference for your future generations
That is what the majority of Bahamians want; a future!
Da people need help. Let da compani drill so we could get some moneay.
This proves my point. There is growing support for the oil industry. But it must be safely developed.
Lmao are you kidding? This is how low you’ve sunk?
Yeah island boy. Cuz that’s how we talk. The arrogance of these British imposters is truly amazing
Bey I doan tell you on another post what you could go do whit cha sef. You mussy like man you keep talking bout me being fake. Come kemp road anytime tru whitey corner and ask fa me. Stay in ya lane daddy, y'all old heads ain no one on yall run.
Bahama7 (aka Simon Potter) needs to go back under that rock he crawled out of. Impersonation a Bahamian now? With poor grammar and spelling? Incredible. This is what they think of our country and it’s people.
So the Government can sell the licenses but no-one is allowed to drill? Sounds like fraud..
BPC dont even pay their license fees, so who is defrauding whom? This company is a bait and switch con. Well done for investing is this sleaze fest
Do you have proof they don't pay?
Yes. They failed to pay an undisclosed number of licensing fees, then came to an accommodation with the government to settle for a lesser amount. And then they had the audacity to launch a local mutual fund, raising exactly 900 K, and pay all of that to settle the outstanding fee. Who knows how much the Bahamas lost out on. Beware my good shareholder. You are dealing with a company that is very shady. They are diluting your shares like crazy as well: http://www.tribune242.com/news/2020/m..." rel="nofollow">http://www.tribune242.com/news/2020/m...
If the Government didn't want oil drilling they should have not put the licenses out for tender
Voly, i have been worried about you. Are you still making baseless threats?
The arrogance of you rainbow warriors ... the court will put your idealist threats to rest my man.
You British scumbags have totally misread the situation. Just watch what happens
The British BPC shareholders are actively plotting on their chat to hijack this poll for Bahamians and skew it artificially in their favor. Bahama7 is their ringleader
Please join us here https://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChat.asp?S...">https://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChat.asp?S...
I am curious as to the rationale of the objection to the drilling that is currently ongoing off the coast of Cuba - it appears there are a number of producing wells not too far away from the exploratory well that is subject of this debate.
The Bahamas relies upon, it seems, tourism for a large amount of its revenue around 60%. As most countries are in a state of lockdown, flights and cruise ships will not be taking the tourist dollar to the Bahamas in the numbers expected.
As that revenue is not forthcoming, I imagine employment opportunities are limited as will be the revenue to complete the remedial work post-Huriccaine Dorian.
What are the thoughts of the masses in relation to drilling?
Why are so many news articles written, read BUT not commented upon?
Is it apathy or is the eco message not hitting the right notes presently?
With drilling already underway not too far away from BPC's exploratory well and revenue being fed back to the nations allowing drilling, why would a government not wish to investigate the possibility of revenue stream and potential employment opportunities for local people?
Many millions of gallons of oil are transported safely through the seas off the coast of the Bahamas Archipeligo without incident. Many millions of gallons have been processed safely at Bahamian facilities. Huriccaine Dorian obviously highlighted an issue when the storage tanks were damaged, though it appears there was no major catastrophe reported.
The fishing issues reported seem more to relate to political issues than damaged stock.
So getting back to the whys and wherefores - surely the Facebook pages would be filled with comments from many individuals rather than the same faces giving their own personal views.
Surely a poll would be better if it were limited solely to local people rather than run the risk of being hijacked. Opening it up to the Change with various polls at this late moment in the islands history is a blatant last ditch attempt for worldwide comment - YET the comments I see on this board suggest BPC supporters are commenting upon something that does not concern them.
Now if that is not blatant hypocrisy I do not know what is.
If we could fill our cars with hot air to run them to and from our protesting then I think we would. Until then we will have to rely on gas.
BPC is not authorized to pump oil they are only conducting a test!
Why the hysteria??
Voly - I am not British. You have a mouth like a toilet rainbow warrior.
If you had two brain cells you would be dangerous.
My bad. Australian, right? The fact that you think ‘rainbow warrior’ is a negative term is quite amusing. Especially coming from a ‘petrocolonialist’
The amount of British bashing in the chat, can't help but think if it was say the Americans, or Russians, or the Chinese how people would react differently..
Please bro. Who the cap fit, let them wear it. Condescending foreign interlopers who want to hijack our national conversation in an effort to line their own pockets at our expense. Don’t matter where they come from.
O Lord, make our enemies quite ridiculous!
This is no way to run a poll. The government should have done a referendum to the people. If they did this whole corrupt venture would fail.
In the meantime here are 84,000 votes against it!
The votes of rich white people in Florida makes dont count
but the votes from the rich white british shareholders on this poll do? give me a break!
The best thing BPC’s shareholders could have done to increase support for their opponents is to hijack this poll in the cynical way that they have.
There is more than a hint of hypocrisy in your post Voltaire - suggesting that BPC interlopers have hijacked a locally based protest by the Bahamian people.
The sip sip is that folks want the GoB to help them financially. They are struggling, work is none, well for the real people of the Bahamas. It is all fine for the middle classes but for the real Bahamians, those that work the soil and keep you wealthy okay. You still drive around in cars when the real people are on foot or on a bike. Your cars need gas. Electric is too expensive at the moment but the middle classes do not care cos they pay the same as the poorer folk.
The hypocrisy mentioned at the beginning? Claim foreign interlopers are adding to the positive vote.
So 'Our Islands' decide to go Worldwide with their campaign.
The reality is the Bahamas needs to stop and speak to the people who need the money - hotel jobs, gone, tour guides are gone, taxi drivers for the tourists all but gone. Look inside your hearts - look to your neighbours - look in the sea - you will see many oil tankers safely transporting the oil with which they make the gas for your car. Every day lots of tankers will be seen.
You will not though, see the drill for BPC as it is too far away.
Well, the sanctimonious outsider that you are, you clearly don’t know the first thing about our economy. Work the soil? LOL. No one who is poor or works for a living will see a dime from BPC. Even in Potter’s wildest predictions, the money is simply too small. Even if fantastically successful, the deal on the table will do nothing to improve the lives of regular Bahamians. The best possible annual return that has been suggested is barely 1/40 of our continually growing national debt. The worst case scenario on the other hand is unthinkable. Listen, you and the rest of the shareholders, please try not to fool yourselves in this embarrassing way.. You are in this for the money. Which is fine. But none of you have come here to save our working class, and what you are promoting only bodes ill for this country. Please stop telling yourselves fairytales. You’re looking to get rich at our expense and there is nothing in it for us. That is the deal, Jack.
Voltaire - you know nothing about me. I do know, however, that the Bahamas economy is currently showing negative as per https://tradingeconomics.com/bahamas/...">https://tradingeconomics.com/bahamas/... as is the UK economy.
The whole world in fact is facing funding issues as COVID hits all of our economies.
The Bahamas as you know relies heavily on tourism - 60% has been quoted. Employment, therefore, relies heavily on tourism.
Covid has devastated tourism worldwide though the majority of countries do not need to rely on tourism as much as the Bahamas and other such delightful places.
BPC is drilling an exploratory well off the coast of Cuba, though in Bahamian waters.
Millions of barrels of oil have been transported safely for decades in Bahamian waters. Lots are stored there too. Is any of that oil bringing benefits to the local Bahamians? Perhaps a handful who are already rich.
Should BPC discover oil in the quantities believed - Middle Eastern sized amounts!!
Would it not be good for the Bahamas to have an option to exploit it as the Arab nations have for many decades? Whilst it made the rich richer, that money also filters down to the local economy. If it doesn't then that is something to take up with your people and government.
I may well be a shareholder with BPC - I may not be - you do not know me well enough to deem me sanctimonious.
I am no better than you and I have never professed myself to be better than anyone else. It is what is in my heart that counts.
What I do know is that I was brought up by a good mother who taught me to have empathy for my fellow human beings. None of us is different - we all arrive in this world naked and unable to speak!!! - it is what we do with our lives that sets us apart in the eyes of the big fella.
Happy New Year to all.
Voltaire - You are in this for the money. Which is fine. But none of you have come here to save our working class.
Such a sweeping statement - as stated - you do not know the posters who add content to this site. You know nothing of my history nor my background.
Philanthropy perhaps is part of a moral code I live by. Stay safe and I wish you no ill will.
I wonder how many of the anti drillers have a basic understanding of economics, or anything for that matter. Dragging in a B grade QC at the 11th hour shows how disorganised and desperate these people are. Maybe theyd prefer Bahamas to start farming out its fisheries to the Chinese?
No one had a chance to say anything when the Petroleum laws passed through the house? No public consultation? No one voted for a government to represent them?
A country tenders contracts for oil and then after millions in investment they try to destroy the company.
It looks like BPC is getting scammed.
The oil company is being scammed.
80'000 holiday makers sign an online petition, great....they should buy BPC out and cancel the licences then.
over 10 years in the making and only now....the foriegners (ourislandsourfuture. is based in COLORADO)make a website to invite friends to signal intent...
pathetic,..how can you issue licences under law and revoke them without a proper reason?...this would show the world you are a mickey mouse country....no real law and order
maybe if the solar companies invested 100 million covering your stunning beaches in solar panels...or having 1000 windmills out spoiling the spectacular views...
world population is rising rapidlly and the seas are already being over fished...so theres another revenue depleted.
i pray this drill is succesful and it changes the bahamian future for the better...you know it makes sense
@4thebenefit - lies!!! Out Islands, Out Future is based in Nassau, Bahamas. It’s spokepersons, on record, and it’s steering committee are prominent and well-known Bahamians. We will be known as a Mickey Mouse country will we? In fact the government of the Bahamas reviews and cancels foreign direct investment projects all the time. We have survived just fine thanks. BPC is not particularly big or special. Clearly you have no idea what you were talking about.Also who are you trying to threaten and hold ransom with that fear mongering? This is why you people come across as bullies. You don’t have the slightest clue about our economy. How much do you think fishing accounts for? The deal BPC wants to give the Bahamian people is a pittance. It couldn’t begin to help our national debt or even impact the annual budget very much. This isn’t Angola. Go take that nonsense somewhere else. We are not for sale.
Bahamas Employment Figures Vs Saudia Arabia
Labour force by occupation
other services 40%
Tourism, banking, cement, *oil transhipment*, salt, rum, aragonite, pharmaceuticals, spiral-welded steel pipe
GDP by sector
Labour force by occupation
Crude oil production, petroleum, refining petrochemicals, ammonia industrial gases, sodium hydroxide, cement, fertilizer, plastics, metals, ship repair, aircraft repair, construction.
GDP by sector
I fail to see your point George. Is it that, having already become involved in the very risky practice of oil transshipment, we should increase our risk exponentially with oil exploration as well? Do you really think that follows logically? Also, we are nothing like Saudi Arabia. It is not a good comparison. We are in Archipelagic nation. A major spill in our waters would be uncontainable and would spread to threaten all of the coastal areas, which provide the tourism that occupies 50% of the people here. Even small spills and the normal discharge from regular drilling threatens crucial interwoven ecosystems near the drill site which affect the marine life of the entire country. Spawning birds and fish nurseries, food sources for marine life etc.There is no comparable risk to Saudi Arabia’s entire economy from one accident.
I live in a coastal town and I have witnessed first-hand oil landing on the coast. I cleaned sea birds, gulls, cormorants and puffins. I can see how we would look upon a tragedy.
That said, things have become a lot safer, there are protocols in place to minimise any impact such as the devastation that was DeepWater Horizon. I am also old enough to remember the Exxon Valdez spill and the devastation that occurred.
It is a risk - no two ways about it - there is a risk.
There is a risk of a cruise ship sinking like the Titanic, Costa Concordia, Herald of Free Enterprise. Massive loss of life over the years. Plane crashes, train crashes and even motor car crashes.
These are all risks - we continue to drive cars, they are continually made safer as are planes, trains and sailing vessels.
It is the same with oil drilling - lessons have been learned - we all hope that disasters do not happen.
Is it risky to live in a hurricane route? Of course it is - but people take precautions to minimise the risk of damage.
Whilst there MUST be a concern about risk - we must also avoid becoming so paranoid that risk is bad.
Had the earlier explorers not take the risk of falling from the edge of the flat earth - the world would be very different.
I understand this is not in my back yard so perhaps easier for me to say - risk is not always bad. Stay safe ;@)
Our Islands Our Future Website search - Records suggest the following: -
Geolocation data from IP2Location (Product: DB6, updated on 2021-1-1)
Domain Name Country Region City
ourislandsourfuture.org United States New Jersey North Bergen
Now of course this is just the location of the server, owned by Digital Ocean, which is a company based in New York.
I am quite sure the Bahamas based organisations have the facility to host their own websites so I do not know why a New York hosting company is used.
New York is quite a hike from the Bahamas.
Sorry for the off topic content of this post, however the question was raised.
So because they got a web designer from the United States to make their page, they are not a Bahamian organization. That is patently ridiculous. Hundreds of companies, organizations, associations etc. in the Bahamas do the same. For a variety of reasons from security, to pricing, to quality. That is just silly.
My post makes a point that the website used by ourislandsourfuture would rather pay a company based in New York to advertise a local issue to save local livelihoods.
Now I never mentioned the irony in that.
Surely the ideology based on saving the Bahamas for Bahamian people would be to look at things more locally. Keeping things in the Bahamas.
I do not suggest for one moment other people are not using servers in other countries. however, whilst trying to save the islands whoever looks after the site perhaps should have looked and booked a local entrepreneur to design, build and look after a website and social media.
I may be wrong and barking up the wrong tree here thinking the thing was about saving the way of life in the Bahamas and keeping foreigners out of the way.
It is only a website and as I pointed out in my post I was curious as to why not a Bahamas based web design company and server.
Don't get why people are annoyed at the company. The company legally obtained the licenses from the Government over 10 years ago. The company then spent ten years undertaking their due diligence, while also paying money to the Government to renew the licenses.
Now the company is drilling, suddenly people are upset. I notice no-one was unhappy when the company was paying money to the Bahamian Gov't for the licenses. I tell you what, here's a few options:
1) Pay back all the money to the company which has been spent, with interest (over £100 million + interest)
2) Pay all shareholders for their shares to stop any drilling (£1/share works well)
Starless child, people are annoyed at the condescending and disingenuous manner in which self interested people seek to inject themselves into our national conversation, portraying themselves as some sort of great colonial savior for the poor benighted natives. Hey listen, you shareholders have to protect your investment. No problem, we get that. Only don’t come on here spinning some story about how this is for our own good etc. Great British saviors of the Bahamas! Maybe you don’t realize what a poor deal this is for the Country m, but we do. You’re in it for yourselves, and if you approach the conversation with that level of honesty we might have more respect for you.
Voltaire, on the other hand it appears you and others insist on the input of others outside of the islands.
With one comes the other. It is a little bit like having your cake and eating it.
Whilst I have not tried to come across as disingenuous, I have attempted to clarify some matters which seem at odds.
A little like saving the Bahamas - with the defenders sending work elsewhere not even just out of town but to the USA.
Disagreeing that people outside of the Bahamas cannot agree with the drill, whilst allowing all and sundry around the world to disagree with it.
Whilst I am from outside of the Bahamas, I can see a country heavily dependent upon tourism, ravished by Dorian and now Covid will struggle to make ends meet in the future.
It will take time to rebuild the infrastructure if there is not the tourist money coming into the islands.
Would you really wish the majority of Bahamians to sit on many billions of dollars in revenue and demand it be left whilst many other countries use the same ports to move the oil taken by the billion barrels from neighbouring regions and watch those countries flourish with the oil money?
The rates of which payment is made are always open for renegotiation though, would you expect someone to come to your home and rebuild it without donating a penny towards the expenses?
Has anyone in the Bahamas the experience to search for the oil, drill and perhaps process it?
This is an expensive business and already more than £100,000,000 has been invested thus far by BPC.
That has been a big risk to them and its shareholders -
Can you imagine QC Smith carrying out all of his work for zero return?
Does the company looking after the website and its hosting do that for zero return?
BPC if successful in finding oil, will return to the government (your government) and present to them their findings.
Your government will then have the choice to gain some riches for themselves and your islands population.
I do not profess to know what the current and previous cabinet have agreed with BPC. I am sure these details will be filtered down via the process with the Supreme Court.
Let the SC be the decider. Stay safe ;@)
Keep peddling your stuff Voly..,
Your a rainbow warrior from Oxford or Cambridge... you’ve been done like a kipper here Boyce.
That’s Australian slang hey?
Keep guessing old chap.... I’ll give you a clue I am from the same country as you!! Lol...
Below is a couple of paragraphs from an earlier Tribune article dated January 11th 2018 - YES that is right 2018. Curious as to why it has taken almost 2 years to submit a request for a Judicial Review - Surely there would have been mass comments upon any anti-drill article IF there was so much uproar in the Bahamas. There are many articles and I would agree that there have been some negative comments made on those articles - however, perhaps all are from no more than a dozen different usernames.
Is there such a burgeoning group of anti-drill campaigners within the Bahamas?
As with any protest there must be some organisation, some clarity upon what roles certain protesters would do, however, I hate to say it - this is so scattergun and without clarity.
I bid you good day and wish you all the best for 2021. I am sure Mr Smith QC will have some further treats lined up in the next few weeks.
Nevertheless here is the couple of paragraphs I alluded to in the opening.
With the April 2018 deadline to drill a first exploratory well near the Cuban maritime border fast approaching, and BPC's search for a joint venture partner continuing, it is highly likely that the oil explorer will have to seek a licence extension similar to the 12 months it obtained from the former Christie administration.
While environmental activists and others are opposed to oil exploration in Bahamian waters, due to the potentially negative impacts on the environment, tourism and economy should a spill occur, the potential benefits for a Government struggling with a near-$7.5 billion national debt are likely to be too strong to ignore.
Thank for running this poll. The results are very interesting indeed.
The results are being manipulated by British shareholders and the evidence has already been turned over to the Tribune. As you full well know as their ringleader. Like I said before, it is the best thing you could’ve done for the PC’s opponents!
Pot/Kettle - It is a little like the Change.org campaign - taken over by folks who do not live in the Bahamas.
All appears fair but only where it suits.
The argument is that BPC should not drill for oil off the coast of Cuba to give a possibility - a mere possibility, that the Government of the Bahamas - may review what may be found under Bahamian waters.
Then once reviewed make a decision as to whether the pro's outweigh the cons.
Oil drilling has changed, the world changes every day. Cuba, Guyana, Nicaragua, T&T, Venezuela are all producing oil. Of course the USA produces much oil too. A lot of the oil produced passes unhindered and without incident through Bahamian waters.
This drill gives the Bahamian Government the option to explore further for the benefit of not only the company BUT the people of the Bahamas.
It is an option to leave any oil under the seabed and never benefit from the resource owned by the Bahamas and allow the country to spiral into further debt which is the option I believe you favour.
Alternatively - bring in a super major oil company who would probably offer less to the GoB as they have hungrier shareholders.
Last resort would be to allow BPC to carry on their exploration and then weigh up all of the options BUT have the evidence at hand on which to base the educated choices on. Currently, the ball is in the air.
As for the vote - I would expect that this vote is put into the same comparison investigation that the Change.org ballot sits. Best regards and stay safe ;@) CG
This mischaracterizes the situation on several levels. Because you seem more polite than most of the BPC janissaries on here, I will try to explain. The change.org petition never purported to be a survey of local opinion. The fact of the matter is that drilling in the Bahamas will affect several jurisdictions, which explains the already two letters from American congressmen warning against this. It was a global vote launched on a well-known global platform and does not pretend to be anything else. This vote, on a local national newspaper’s website on the other hand, is clearly intended to gauge local public opinion about drilling . Just like every tribune poll since they began doing them. And it is not just that the company’s foreign shareholders happened upon this page and began to vote, they discussed and organized coming on here to skew the vote and give a false impression of local public opinion. They even discussed voting several times. That is not the same thing at all. Twice now, in what would have been the middle of the night in the Bahamas, 1000 or so votes got dumped into the yes column. Curious that. Secondly, the narrative that this exploratory well will give the Bahamas an idea of its options is a sham, based on BPCs own statements. They have declared that if oil is found within the timeframe given for the drill, the company has a 30 year right to extract that cannot reasonably be denied. They are not giving us options; they are tying us down. And in that context, the deal that has been negotiated would be of minimal impact to the Bahamas economy in light of our annual budget, the size of our national debt, etc. It is a drop in the bucket. The average Bahamian will see no benefit whatsoever. Meanwhile the risk for a nation of islands that depend almost entirely upon their coastal environment and ecology, is immeasurable. I hope this helps.
Nevertheless, the no votes are very encouraging. Usually these polls get a few hundred votes total. Nearly 800 have come out against. And if the opponents were manipulating the situation like BPC is doing, well, it has already been noted that they can mobilize 80,000 people to a vote. Therefore one would imagine that using underhanded tactics they could also get thousands to vote overnight. It is fair to assume therefore That the no vote is organic and a true reflection of how people feel. 800 on a Tribune survey, that is huge!
Voltaire - I stated in one of my initial posts that the newspaper ballot should have been solely for the local people. As you will no doubt know the additional 1000 as you say arrived out of Bahamian hours. Could that perhaps also be said about the many hundreds of vote supporting the anti-drilling campaign?
Either way, this particular ballot has been skewed by outside influences. There is no doubt about that.
The Change.org site has many good and proper petitions and I do believe it is a genuine means of collectively gaining an opinion on matters, however, it is not a panacea.
The approach to anti-drilling appears to be a little scattergun and has too many influencers pulling the debate in too many directions for it to gain the traction it would need to be a success. I am assuming a lot of the power in the movement seems to be outside of the islands, therefore it has not been at the forefront of focus for the inhabitants of the island.
Again I will re-iterate that the current operations of BPC are exploratory and nobody knows the results. It may be that there is no commercial oil under the ocean floor and therefore there is no money for the shareholders, the company or the people of the Bahamas.
If that is the case then BPC and its shareholders have paid a bundle of money to the GoB over the years for the privilege of trying to discover whether the Bahamas is sitting on a vast treasure.
As technical abilities improve, oil could be removed from the side via Cuban waters with no benefit to the Bahamas. Horizontal drilling is a viable means of extracting it.
The same risks apply of course and as the potential fields if drilled vertically would be Bahamian they would benefit Bahamian people.
A scenario is 100% of zero is zero. A percentage of a positive number up to 50% with no financial obligation to GoB is a potentially better financial option.
You may say that all the oil belongs to the Bahamas so therefore the Bahamas should get more than 50% - BUT with no operational costs to pay. That would never be a viable option - in an article in the Tribune: -
Simon Potter, Bahamas Petroleum Company's (BPC) chief executive, speaking before the threatened legal challenge by environmental activists emerged (see other article on Page 1B), told Tribune Business that the company and Bahamian government will enjoy an equal 50/50 share of any proceeds should it discover commercial quantities of oil in this nation's waters.
They want to give us 12.5 to 25%. Based on potters numbers that is at maximum $250 million a year. That is best case scenario. Our national debt is 9 billion and growing, growing by more than that number each year. Our government annual budget is an excess of 3 billion. 250, million would not change things dramatically for anyone here. Nor do we have a history of government actually trickling down revenue to the public in any case. Money is money, but not with the kind of catastrophic risks that are involved. And that doesn’t have to mean a major spill. It is the fragile interconnectedness of all parts of our marine ecology that is the point. So just the silt and normal waste from the drill, being so close to a marine protected area were fish spawn and spread out to populate the entire marine ecosystem, that is the issue. If you don’t understand the particular ecology of the Bahamas, which is far as I know is quite unique, you do not understand the threat. Nor do we know for certain that the company has paid heaps of money to our government over the years. We have no freedom of information, but we do know that they defaulted on some, or perhaps all of their license payments. They settled last year for $900,000, which they had just raise from local investors, for an undisclosed amount which they had failed to pay. The total bill would’ve been an excess of $12 million. Did they ever pay us anything? We just don’t know.
Why would the government tolerate this failure to pay, you might ask. You need to pay attention of the political circumstances under which the deal was signed. The then governing party’s deputy was BPC’s attorney. The then Prime Minister ended up as their consultant. The governing partiy’s senator was there managing director, and another senator from that party is now their attorney. BPCs deputy chairman, the former minister of finance from that party, owns 9 million shares. Starting to get the picture?
Voltaire - the company have a website and its financial affairs are published as the laws dictate.
As for government ministers, I have known some and would I trust them? I think you know the answer to that.
The current situation with CV19 is crippling the world's economies and the rich, well they just get richer and that tiny percentage of wealthiest owning what becomes a little smaller. Money talks - as for percentages of who gets what - it is mere speculation as we do not know if there are commercial quantities of anything under the surface.
Should there be commercial oil, there would no doubt be lots of training for people in the Bahamas. There will be opportunities for work outside the 50-60% that is tourism currently and the wages will be far in excess of what can be earned from the tourist dollar.
Again this is hypothetical as we do not know the answer of what lies beneath.
Looking at a subject from a singular angle will not give a wider idea of what could play out here. YES, there could be a disaster - BUT that is a what-if scenario the same as whether sufficient oil is there in the first place.
Try and see the issue from pro's and con's. Then you will be playing from an angle where you can take a better high ground with your disagreement with drilling.
I do not know your family/financial background, whether you live or lived in the Bahamas. I do not live there, nor have I been able to afford a holiday there yet. I do though have friends who have left the islands and sought a different future elsewhere where there is more opportunity. Similarly, we have a lot of folks leaving the countryside due to lack of opportunities around the country and instead, we have an influx of the rich who wish to create a different vibe.
This is the way of the world as it stands.
As yet - we have drilling off the coast of Cuba and of course, further away is the coast of the Bahamas. The rig is a lot different to that of the DWH as is the drilling methodology.
A few more weeks of safe drilling and it will be capped off and sealed.
Stay safe and by using the virtues of your username - remain tolerant.
Please watch this and see what can be achieved and how lives can be changed for the common good https://youtu.be/zOfr54VbHE4">https://youtu.be/zOfr54VbHE4
Y do people vote yes??? I'm confused!
This vote has been hijacked by shareholders of the oil company who are trying to make a fast buck. Yes votes are not coming from the Bahamas. You will see all of it in the comments above
Voltaire - Like I have mentioned several times unless the vote was made secure enough to only have local people casting a vote then this particular ballot is null and void.
As you know many people can vote outside of the Bahamas and without requiring an identity or location.
The courts will, of course, decide whether there will be any further drilling. Most arguments I have seen have not been about the drilling and extraction of oil BUT more the amount of money that would be going into the coffers of government.
I watched the video with the DPM online and as he suggested, perhaps some people of government involved in negotiating the contracts may have too close affiliation and therefore a potential benefit.
IF - commercial quantities of oil are found then the current government will need to be squeaky clean when it comes to percentages etc.
We live in a world where sadly MONEY talks.
As for voting here - as you suggested earlier - the maximum amount of votes cast are around a couple of hundred so we can all see this one makes a mockery due to lack of identity.
Whilst yes votes MAY not all be from locals one can only assume not all no votes are the same. Only a handful of comments are from 'outsiders' so one cannot assume anything other than this vote has failed. It needs an insider only ballot and perhaps not on a page like this.
To make a point about how rioned this ballot is, there is little activity or objection shown on any of the Facebook pages, and very little activity on any of the other Tribune242 ballots.
I can see the no votes from foreigners increasing - Twitter campaigns do work after all.
Still the majority favour oil it seems.
Right. But when presented with evidence that the British shareholders of this company had ramped up the yes vote, you claimed but it was the will of the Bahamian people. Now that you are about to lose, it is the foreigners skewing the vote towards no. You are an interesting creature, a sort of British Trumper who believes things are genuine only when they favor your desired outcome. When BPC is found to her drilled illegally and any further licenses or refused as a result, will you also try to hold on to the deal kicking in screaming like the orange one in Washington? Incite a riot maybe? Who knows what you will do British7.
Voltaire - I have said all along this ballot would be null and void because of the votes outside of the area. You said yourself that the usual voting is a couple of hundred.
That said, as there is known to be a lot of votes coming from outside we cannot be sure all votes pro-drilling are from outside and the same can be said for the no-drilling.
It is quite apparent that the voting is coming from all over the world and thus makes a mockery of the who escapade.
On a different note - you mention the issues in America - your neighbours.
In Britain, such issues as you will know are sorted over a cuppa or a pint of Watney's Pale Ale.
The drill will run until a result is known. That result will be examined by the company and I am sure they will allow those results to be known to the "interested parties" - they being the Government of the Bahamas, the drilling company and the shareholders.
That information will, of course, be in the public domain and as your government have alluded to the conditions set out in the original agreements are very tight.
BPC has met all its conditions and therefore they are operating legally.
BPC was, of course, kept out of the original application for JR, however, it is quite obvious by the terminology of the QC Smith: -
"Fred Smith QC, the Callenders & Co attorney and partner, told Tribune Business that Bahamas Petroleum Company (BPC) is "not out of the woods" yet despite Justice Petra Hanna-Adderley yesterday declining to grant a "stay" that would have halted drilling of its first exploratory well in waters 90 miles west of Andros.
So why was BPC kept out of the application IF Mr Smith is now claiming BPC are not out of the woods?
Surely this JR was against the government's decision to grant the authority and licences to BPC and it was that issue the fight was about.
NOW, of course, it is all about BPC, who Mr Smith and his cohorts, keep denying an opportunity to defend itself.
Now that is rather unfair in my view.
It is a case of let is pretend it is not about BPC and claim, as Mr Smith had done throughout, that it was about the government.
I'm afraid that if I can see through that ruse - a learned colleague will be able to.
Should BPC be disallowed to defend itself and/or not be allowed to complete their legal right to continue with exploration and/or drilling to produce - the country will itself have to consider how to compensate.
Alternatively, allow the current parliament to renegotiate the whole issue.
Looking through the many news articles about drilling in the Bahamas it is extremely bad manners to try and commence a JR at the time it did.
All knowledge about dates, locations, type of drill was known years ago.
I will keep a watchful eye over proceedings on Change - I notice Jadwiga Gewert from Miami Beach has signed so she is perhaps local for the cause. Lizmarie Santiago is one I could not locate in the Bahamas similarly Raquel Ramotar.
Where we are at the moment - a QC trying to crush a small independent oil explorer who has been extremely open with their commitment for well over 10 years.
More than a decade where any environmental argument could have been placed before a court to deny any company from exploring for oil within Bahamian waters.
Whilst previous ministers have gone with their own legal advice behind them to ensure that any exploration would be safe and meeting the criteria of an EIA.
That EIA had been agreed in principle at the highest level of the current government which are now claiming they disagree with the exploration in Bahamian waters.
The EIA requirements which have been met - the argument that a different but more complex and reliable would replace the original one is farcical.
Again the notification of the change of vessel was well advertised months before any JR had been suggested.
The question is WHY LEAVE IT until days before the drill bit hit the seabed?
A very unsavoury tactic which was seen and noted by the judge who has allowed the drill to continue unhindered.
Many Facebook pages from Anti Drill groups exist - HOWEVER - little comment on any of them. Some are opened by the same individual or groups.
Many news articles have been published in local papers YET, very little uptake by local people (some 400,000 of them).
The same names appear objecting to any thoughts of a drill - I counted less than 24 individuals posting about objecting to any exploration.
Currently Bahamas tourism is almost at a standstill and some 50% plus of GDP comes from the tourism industry - and with just under 50% of employment being in that sector, times will become grimmer as the Covid pandemic creates more uncertainty.
How will the Bahamas react to any foreign tourist visiting their islands - with or without masks.
Can the Bahamian people control a tourist who has been aching for freedom and finds the beautiful beaches and people too difficult to resist?
Can the Bahamian people afford not to investigate a more diverse source of income? One which could bring employment and a different avenue for young people to find employment.
The Bahamians I know left due to the lack of work outside the often low paid avenues of tourism. Whilst the role of service plays a massive role in most countries there are usually other forms of employment outside serving the foreigner who perhaps sees the servile as being of a lower rank to them.
I have myself been in service and I know how it feels to be looked down upon by people who are not fit to clean my shoes. But money talks of course.
Money is something a lot of that 50% employed in the tourism industry are not earning these days.
Whilst those fighting for ecology are well educated and able to protest without fear of losing their jobs/income the rest are left to fend for themselves.
The drill is about ascertaining whether there MAY be an alternative to many years with a much-reduced tourism industry - which will suit some of those sat with residual income to satisfy their needs. The NIMBYs of the world will be extremely happy to allow the status quo - no foreigners messing up the beaches and streets.
But how do people traverse the islands?
How do all the visitors get to the islands in the first place?
How do supplies from outside the islands arrive in the shops?
How do Bahamians like to travel and see somewhere perhaps less beautiful?
Millions of gallons of oil are used, millions more transported, and stored safely, around the waters of the Bahamas every week, and until the green industry finds a greater solution to what is available NOW - then surely there is a need to investigate in a safe and proper manner.
Whilst this is obviously not the end of the objections to drilling - I do hope consideration is given for the little people, who are not in a position due to education and finance, to have their say.
Voltaire - here are a couple more locals to have signed the Change.org petition: - Carter Venezia, from Ballwin, MO, US
Liudmila Moshchalkova from Hallandale Beach, FL, US
Veronique Chicherie Touboul from Miami Beach
Brad Nahill from Portland Oregon
Many more folks who are not Bahamian though taking that keen interest.
We will discover what moves are made next by all parties during the coming weeks. BPC will of course complete the exploration process and inform the Government of the Bahamas of the result - positive or negative.
It will then be a case of whether there may be merit in the possibilities or otherwise.
50% of employees will be keen to get back to work somehow - tourism has been dealt a terrible blow worldwide and will take several years to recover.
The change.org petition never claimed to be a local poll. Many different jurisdictions will be affected by BPCs nonsense and they have a right to speak as well. This, on the other hand, is clearly meant for locals and it was hijack by self interested interlopers trying to make a buck off of the Bahamas. You’re absolutely correct though, everything will come out soon, I hope DPC is ready for the various disclosures they will be forced to make. People will see this thing in a whole new light I promise you.
I believe the biggest gripe from followers of BPC is the fact they were excluded from the court action deliberately with the action itself solely about the government. The actual fact of the matter is that the applicants have gone out to destroy a company which has paid your government a lot of money in order to discover whether the Bahamas is sitting on a huge wealth that could transform the lives of many for the better. Those underhand tactics are just plain sly.
But that is simply not true Curious. BPC agreed to pay a lot of money to the government, then failed to do so. Reneged on any or all of their licensing fees over the years. The extent of their failure to pay remains undisclosed. Last year, thy reached a settlement deal with the government over those unpaid fees, for $900k of what should have been up to $12million. See, in the weeks before, they launched a mutual fund to attract Bahamian investors, raised exactly $900k from us, and used it to settle their unpaid bill! That’s right - WE paid our own government, not BPC. Now who is sly and underhand? Second, under the terms of the deal, an oil discovery will change no loves here. One of the worst deals for a domestic population of its kind in the world. The realities of our economy, GDP and national debt means that the drop in the bucket BPC is proposing to give us will not make anything better, while endangering the very foundations of the most prosperous economy in the region. In addition, while the rhetoric is that the government and the people of the Bahamas will decide the way forward once a discovery is found, BPC continues to tell his investors that it has us locked in to a 30 year production agreement that we cannot get out of. One way or the other, they are lying. Lastly, a Judicial Review I’d a process by which the government’s decision making process is examined by the courts. It is not a lawsuit. That process was never intended to include private companies, and it is not the proper place for them to be joined. They have a right to be heard the same as if they were parties however. Which they have been granted in this case as well. The reason the environmentalists resist their unusual request to be included in a process that has nothing to do with them, is because this unnatural inclusion of a private developer in what is a judicial process to do with government decision-making has been pursued in the past by companies, merely so they can bring an army of expensIve lawyers to bear, draw out the proceedings, demand security for cost and price regular citizens out of justice. Prevent them ever getting a hearing, denying them their day in court. There is no other advantage to be gained by the company via being included, because as I said, they already have a right to be heard in the same way they would as a party. This is happened several times in the Bahamas before. And BPC‘s lawyers have made it clear that that is their intention in this case as well. Judicial review hearings are meant to happen quickly, if there is nothing for the company to be afraid of, why not just let the court review the government’s decision making process?
Curious, see my reply above. You seem like a decent guy. I think you need to take a closer look at this company. Something is rotten in Denmark my friend. Everything I say is a matter of public record.
Voltaire - thank you for deeming me a decent guy - you are correct of course ;@) - the publicity - certainly from your QC is aimed directly at BPC - perhaps his terminology is wrong - he is reported to have said: -
Qc Urges Oil Explorer: 'Meet Us On Battlefield'
Smith: BPC has “poked a hole in the belly of mother nature”
"We're coming for you"
Whilst these are mere words and I have read several other incidents, they are aimed directly at BPC. So instead of leaving BPC out of the mix and going directly for the protocols set out by your own government, the team have publicly gone after BPC too.
The headline Meet Us On Battlefield tells the fight as it really is and is certainly not sugar-coated.
The claim that monies are outstanding - is this factual and if so can you point me to the official documents that state BPC has reneged on any payment.
Should there be a debt outstanding surely that would be a breach of the contract that the opposing team would pick up on and perhaps force the hand of the government?
I am sure over the next few weeks the truth of the matter will become clearer.
The Bahamas Christian Council bishop Delton Fernander, being interviewed on Eye Witness News, wants to see the results of the exploration as did Fred Mitchell who said "it would be foolish for any government not to consider"
Having seen a video of an open-air meeting by Bahamian Evolution, I noted a large congregation of people listening to what was being said.
Bahamian Evolution want the Bahamian people to benefit from the oil Their video highlights the potential benefits and also highlights the many everyday uses of oil and not just for Gasoline and Polluting vehicles - food, plastics, machines, makeup - almost everything we touch has a trace of oil in it. https://youtu.be/0WKQdLjx0E8">https://youtu.be/0WKQdLjx0E8">https://youtu.be/0WKQdLjx0E8">https://youtu.be/0WKQdLjx0E8
When I have seen protests by the anti-drill movement I have only seen still photos and usually only one or two persons present.
Whilst the anti-drill campaign has perhaps a louder voice in the media presently I imagine voices will become louder for the pro-drill campaign.
As the BE video exhibits quite succinctly there are a lot more uses of the oil in your seas than gasoline/diesel.
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