By RASHAD ROLLE
Tribune Staff Reporter
rrolle@tribunemedia.net
THE Bahamas is one of a group of countries in the region suing Britain, Holland and France for slavery compensation payments.
The country is aligning itself with 13 other CARICOM member states demanding what could be hundreds of billions of dollars in reparations for slavery.
During a CARICOM (Caribbean Community) conference on ‘Regional Reparations’ in St Vincent and the Grenadines, a decision was made to pursue legal action against the former colonial powers.
CARICOM has hired the British law firm Leigh Day, which recently won compensation for hundreds of Kenyans tortured by the British colonial government during the Mau Mau rebellion of the 1950s.
CARICOM has not specified how much money it is seeking but Britain paid slave owners £20 million when it abolished slavery in 1834, which would be the equivalent of £200 billion today, or $318 billion.
Fred Mitchell, Foreign Affairs Minister, said yesterday: “We haven’t defined a position beyond the general position taken at the last CARICOM meeting. We weren’t represented there. However, whatever was the decision that came out of the last meeting, that would represent our position.”
Speakers at the conference in St Vincent and the Grenadines emphasised that genocide, slavery and colonialism had negatively impacted the Caribbean’s developmental path.
A communiqué released at the end of the conference said the goal of CARICOM’s Reparations Commission was to “establish the moral, ethical and legal case for the payment of reparations by the governments of all former colonial powers and the relevant institutions in those countries, to the nations and people of the Caribbean community for the crimes against humanity and native genocide, the Transatlantic slave trade and a racialised system of chattel slavery.”
Dr Ralph Gonsalves, St Vincent and the Grenadines’ Prime Minister, told a recent meeting in New York, where he was present for the 68th Session of the United Nations General Assembly Debate: “When I take over the chairmanship of CARICOM in January I hope to get letters to Europe.
“We’re going for reparations because of state-sponsored genocide and state-sponsored slavery”, he added.
Comments
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 6 months ago
If we get the money how much do we anticipate we would receive and what are the plans for it?
John 10 years, 6 months ago
If we get the money, I am moving to Lyford cay, so I can build my (Freedom Cay) righ next to Nygard and Bacon
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 6 months ago
If we get the money I'm going to sponsor Junkanoo in October! December and January are covered, the PM is going to see to it that we have a festival in March, the party afterglow could probably hold out till goombay but right around September people get all "worky" with back to school..if they had to prepare for another party......yep that's what I'm gonna do with my share.
Bahamianfirst 10 years, 6 months ago
Hi Tribune,
I just had to response to some of the raciest comments I've seen on this site I think that compensation is in order for slavery but I don't think that the government's of these various Caribbean nations should issue or pay out the monies to families etc. I think that what ever monies or received should with immediate effect be held in escrow for the continuing education of Caribbean peoples and their descendants in perpetuity. This would in-able all young descendants of slaves the right to higher education and further "level the playing field" if you will, of disadvantaged black men and women who are now struggling to pay their way through college and universities.
Further Tribune, for more than 400 years of enforced slavery and being denied the basic education and to even make matters worst for more than 200 years under colonial dominance the black majority in the Bahamas were denied all of these things. Therefore, I thing it is only fitting and justified that the black majority in these islands and in the Caribbean region be compensated with the basic things they were denied of in the basic and to help them achieve there goals of a higher education now..
and for those who think that this is unnecessary and look down at this effort of our Caribbean leaders I think I know why they criticizes this report in your very popular and respected media journal, and that is because many of them are of the minority who have already attained higher education or are benefiting from what they were privileged to have inherited from their families businesses!!!!!!
All we are asking for and deserve is that what we were denied that our children and their children have the same opportunities that the minorities in the Bahamas now have and the same applies to the Caribbean region.....
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 6 months ago
All jokes aside I agree with your plan, free tertiary education with accountability...unfortunately I'm not holding out hope for any money. On the off chance that we do get any, it's probably going to go to another everybody-feel-good-all-the-Kentucky-you-can-eat-party
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 6 months ago
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TalRussell 10 years, 6 months ago
Why aren't the "Afro-Bahamalander's" not suing Africa for what could amount to billions of dollars in compensation? Wasn't it them who actually sold their own people to the Slave Traders? Seems many of we Bahamaland's may have feared far better financially than many of their African Comrades? Even President Obama calls it foolishness which will only result in failure.
UserOne 10 years, 6 months ago
I agree. Whenever we talk about slavery we always leave out the role of the Africans who sold their own people into slavery.
John 10 years, 6 months ago
This effort was started way back in the 1980's and Black America was suppose to be in on the plan. The question is who qualifies for reparations and how much? If reparations are on and the distribution is determined by population, the Bahamas will be shortchanged. And since here has been much intermingling of the decendants of former slaves and those of former slave owners, how will it be determined who gets benefits? It would be great to see the Caribbean countries receive billions of dollars, to pull Haiti out f poverty and countries like the Bahamas and Jamaica out of debt, but the countries being sued would rather declare bankruptcy before they pay up. But how many millions did Haiti have to pay to France to secure its independence?
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Regardless of what Obama says, (just saying he did say it was foolishness) if reparations were ever paid,, the United States would have to pay its share. Not only did a greater number of slaves end up in that country, but Blacks were killed, mistreated and disenfranchised years or decades after slavery was abolished. Up until the early 1990's blacks were not safe travelling in some parts of the south, especially and even today with a black president there racial discrimination in schools and in the workplace and there are still such animals as 'a black church' or a white church and even now an Hispanic church.
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Blacks are not racists, they just keep their guard up and don't trust no one. The Ku Klux Klan, who murdered thousands of blacks mostly, and many other white supremist and hate filled groups still lurk in the shadows even in this day and time waiting for an opportunity to strike. Just visit their sties on the internet and see the hate filled messages the spew out. and the threats they make. The NAACP and black colleges and other organizations can do little to repair what was done to Black people during 500 years of slavery and the almost 100 years of racial discrimination that followed it. How many millions of bodies were dumped in these same crystal clear waters of the Bahamas, as slaves died or became ill, or decided to fight for their freedom. Do their souls still cry out for justice and restitution? One must be truly ignorant to say that if Black people endured this for 500 years it does not affect those alive today. Remember Black people (who were slaves then) were discouraged from learning to read and becoming educated and some lost their lives or were lynched or maimed if they learned to read. But today when many Black kids have no interest in academics, they as labeled as dumb or afflicted with learning disorders ADD and AHDD . They say even cows know when they are on their way to the slaughter house. With hogs all they do is spread feed on the trail leading to the slaughter and they will eat. Sheep (like Christ) do not resist. They walk their way. With cows they fight all they way..go figure
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
The total atlantic slave trade was 10 to 12 million ,up to 2 million died in transit ,however 6 million blacks were killed by blacks in tribal wars to supply the slave traders w/ slaves so tthe tribal cheifs could get guns to have more tribal warfare ,which since the colonialist left africa is now in full gear as babies strave b/c Mogabue nationalized the farms in Zimbabwe that were the bread basket of africa and are now derelict
VDSheep 10 years, 6 months ago
If the Jews and Kenyans can be compensated for being exploited by colonial countries that professes the so called rule of law and democracy - Why not! Europeans ought to be sued for all atrocities and exploitation for; slavery, resources, political, social, depopulation, religious indoctrination, ethnic disenfranchisement, language oppression, name enslavement, European hegemony etc. - not the whole nine yards…, it must be the full ten yards, or 100 percent on everything they have done and is still doing. Go for it! Let’s see how the rule of law works for the still enslaved black community. Most European wealth and their descendants wealth in Canada, US, Australia and the like is derived from Africa and its people of colour - we need to get it back, plus inflation over hundreds of years! Let’s do it, make it so!
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
lets all go back farther ,the Romans enslaved the most people ever during their reign ,over 100 million ,the Jews , Eypthians,Whites ,Blacks etc , T HE BIBLE condone slavery and even praised good slave owners .In you want to sue the Europeans are you also going to sue the middle eastern raises that took more slaves out of the top of Africa over land .What about the African leaders now that have oil wealth and diamonds etc ,while they war and slaughter over tribal nonsense and their people are starving ,should we sue them too or call on the Hauge to get the "white" countries to remove them .What about the blacks that were complicit and sold the other tribes the had conquered to the slave traders for guns to conquer more tribes ,,have you gotten my point yet ??
John 10 years, 6 months ago
You are always are keen on twisting the truth. First you say you know many phone card vendors (modern day slaves, non-white even) who are happy with what BTC is paying them, but to date you have failed t name one, much less three. You say that the reason why many corn and other grain products coming from the US have "for export" or "not to be consumed in the US", is for tax purposes, but now even high school students here in the Bahamas are being taught about the genetically engineered corn and being advised to stay away from it. Now you are trying to re-write history and say that more blacks were killed in Africa by fellow (Black) Africans than those that lost their lives in any other part of the slave trade. Well the reason why the "middle passage' of the slave trade was known as the 'deadly passage' was because so many Africans lost their lives in this crossing. When the ships neared the Bahamas and Caribbean slaves who were ill or emaciated were thrown over board like spoiled tomatoes. Remember Blacks were not considered humans at that time, and so the sick ones to the ship owner was just a commodity that went bad..So he tossed them to the sharks And the reason why slaves ships had to continue journeying back and forth to Africa during the 500 year slave period was because many slave were maimed, abused and mistreated during this time. Since they were not set free and the masters refused to feed any slave that was non-productive, mimed, or ill they were put to death. So even with the masters forcing them to breed like flies, they could not replenish slaves fast enough without having to go back to Africa.
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
2 million blacks were killed in the middle passage ,up to 6 million blacks were killed in the tribal wars that produce the prisoners that were sold by the tribal chiefs into slavery ..Having a father that owned a wholesale grocery for 40 years the i know " the for export only is for tax reasons " if you want to believe some other nonsense go ahead .Yes of course there is genetically modified corn ,grafting to get the best crops did the same thing just slower
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
very simple John ,google how many people were killed in the tribal wars that supplied slaves for the trans atlantic slave trade ..also look up how many slaves were taking out of africa by the middle eastern muslim countries ,shouldn,t you sue then too ..
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Does Caricom have any white people in slavery? Have they ever had any white people in slavery? Tell us where and we will go with you to free them!
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
There are 20 million people enslaved in the world today , women in the sex industry ,children etc ,there are still tribes in Africa that enslave the other tribes they capture in tribal warfare
Muckracker 10 years, 6 months ago
Lying my friend. Where i the tribal warfare in Africa, unless you are talking about political and economic warfare
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
I,m am not lying ,there is tribal and religous warfare in Africa today ,there is even one tribe who chops a hand or foot off the others as a sign of dominance .When a village is captured women and teenagers are raped as a sign of dominance ,there is still forced circusium of women and girls from poorer country seen as hereditary slaves for sex ..It would be idiotic to make this stuff up as anyone can google , slavery or tribal warfare today in Africa
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Blacks fought for their freedom from slavery and are still in a struggle for equal rights and other rights they should have. If you are white then maybe you need to go and help free the white people that are in slavery. I reiterate: No Caricom nation has any white folks in slavery. (well maybe they are managers or computer technicians or doctors or lawyers aye..)
Muckracker 10 years, 6 months ago
Rory you are the racist, why dont you relocate to Europe
John 10 years, 6 months ago
I ask you again, even in my ' idiocracy', "Which Caricom nation is holding White people in slavery?" I will help you to go free them.
lazybor 10 years, 6 months ago
dont feed the troll
http://tinyurl.com/c7l9ck6" width="1" />
Muckracker 10 years, 6 months ago
Roy prove there are white slaves ok
banker 10 years, 6 months ago
In retrospect, after seeing the situation in Africa, I thank my lucky stars that I am a Bahamian living in the Bahamas, rather than being African living in Africa. No thanks. Nigeria -- not on your life.
What happened during the slave trade was horrendous. It was a genocide. However, part of the reason is Christianity itself. The bible says "Slaves, obey your masters". And to think that Blacks adopted Christianity. And that religion still enslaves us (Black and White) to this day.
Nobody is going to pay anyone for slavery reparations. It is a pie-in-the-sky way of expanding the begging bowl. And for Black people the world over, the begging bowl leaks.
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
Are we going to go back and sue the Roman empire that had over 100 million slaves of all hues and colour ??Are we going to sue the African warlords that killed over 6 million in tribal warfare that was ongoing and then they starting selling their prisoners to the slave trade to gain wealth and guns and not have to feed them ..Are we going to sue the African leaders of Nigeria etc ,that have oil and diamond wealth today and their populations live on less than a dollar a day and are starving .Are we going to sue the middle eastern Muslim countries that took slaves out of the top of Africa w/ out boats ...
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Do not quote half the bible in an effort to deceive people or mislead them. The bible admonishes that slavery is wrong! However it does tell believers that if they are ever caught up in slavery, that they shall render service unto their masters as if unto the Lord. The benefits of this were proven by Joseph who proved himself over and over to be an honest, trustworthy and faithful servant, when he was held captive in Egypt. In the end it paid off big time because he was able to feed his entire family and rescue them during the time of drought and famine. And likewise, during our time of slavery (my great grandmother was 8 when our family was freed) many blacks came to accept themselves as slaves and rendered faithful service unto their masters. Even freedom came, many of them refused to leave the plantations, and continued to work for their masters for food and somewhere to live, simply because the plantation was the only life they knew. Besides there were men about capturing and killing freed slaves and treating them as runaways or selling them to slave owners who still didn't get the message that slavery was over.
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
Should the Jews get to sue the Romans who are now the Italians for enslaving them in Bibical time ??Are you aware there are still tribes in africa today that conquer other tribes villages/city and enslave them ???
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 6 months ago
In that case, I'll take your share.
Muckracker 10 years, 6 months ago
Banker you are so not traveled, Bahamas is a Third/Forth World country with a debt of over $4B. A country run by illegal money, foreigners in the hotel and Banking industry. Get a grip and improve the lives of those over the hill, in the houses without tape water and inside toilets.
TalRussell 10 years, 6 months ago
Comrade Banker why is it you always have to reference the bible to make your points. You do understand it is by design that the big book is so contradictory? But if you want make it out as all perfect then you should also mention that it also states that it was God who delivered the Jews from Slavery? Boy it sure can mess with we head's? Even we Comrade Christian Believers don't need no religion to tell us what is right and wrong.
AMEN!
TalRussell 10 years, 6 months ago
Comrade John Slavery has not been a abolished, they now require the offspring's of their plantation and household slaves to go and rent their own Shanty Town Slum Shacks from their new "black" capitalists masters, while both a gold and red shirts government and opposition MP's watches ever so silently. Some them even become them Slum Landlords highly paid lawyers of record. I keep saying you just can't make this stuff up?
AMEN!
John 10 years, 6 months ago
AS a matter of fact most settlements in New Providence were shanty towns that came about as a result as the abolishment of slavery. Bains Town, Grants town, Gambier, Adleide Village and Sandilands Village to name a few. The White (former) masters were not too comfortable with having so many (freed) blacks moving around in Down Town and Fox Hill even so the blacks moved over the hill and to the outer areas of New Providence. I find no shame in shanty towns. The bible says the poor will always be with us. ANd some and more safe and happy in the shanty towns that others in Lyford Cay and Ole Fort Bay. Apparently some in government are embarrassed by the Shanty towns, but how many low cost homes have they constructed since coming to power. The Shanty towns represent reality.
TalRussell 10 years, 6 months ago
Some could even make that claim regarding our Out island settlements, but they were clean enough to eat off the floor. It's not the Shanty Town's that's the problem, it's deplorable health hazard conditions that are allowed to co-exist right next door to well planned neighborhoods and communities. There can be no excuse for tolerating these places, that is unless you think we should be reversing all we have achieved as hard working Bahamalander's?
MonkeeDoo 10 years, 6 months ago
If those countries that Caricom proposes to sue over slavery were judged guilty, and they paid, all the black people would have to send the money back, in gratitude for what these countries, and America, did to shut Hitler down, because one thing is for sure Hitler would have annihilated the entire negro race on this earth. Including light and bright skinned people. And that means all people of African descent. Yinna black people forget how well your backsides have been looked after these last 300 + years. Not by Africans but by white Europeans.
SP 10 years, 6 months ago
WTO breathing down our backsides and Dr Ralph Gonsalves, St Vincent and the Grenadines’ Prime Minister says: “When I take over the chairmanship of CARICOM in January I hope to get letters to Europe.
CARICOM group of idiots are handing the region right back to the hands of slavery with both eyes wide open!
Hubert Ingraham had an opportunity to lead a united CARICOM rebuttal against WTO but allowed himself to be bought out with a position on the IMF.
Dr Ralph Gonsalves better pull his head out of his ass and form a unified CARICOM response aimed at derailing WTO.
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
if we want our crawfish to be exported ,if we want our central bank drafts to have any value and clear the clearing banks around the world ,and if we want large investors to feel secure in our c urrency and have the ability to move money we have to comply w/ the WTO and IMF ,,it really is that simple . You might not like it but ,big dog always rules ..specially when you live on coral rocks ,produce very little that is needed as a necessity in a golbal economy and only have sun ,sand and sell to sell ,,big up ur chest all you like ,but thats reality
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Hitler was an anti-christ whose mission was to wipe out the Jews. His efforts never reached beyond Europe and was not focused on Black people Our genocide was slavery. And black soldiers did fight in the world war against Hitler, on the US side for sure and they made good soldiers.
sansoucireader 10 years, 6 months ago
Hitler's 'mission' was to use the Final Solution on any group he considered inferior and yes, that included Black people/people of African descent. Remember when he wouldn't even shake hands with African-American athlete Jesse Owens at The Olympics? It was not just Jews; it was Gypsies, suspected homosexuals, musicians, artists, union leaders, the mentally or physically ill and anyone who had a 'different thought'. Someone like me, a mixed person, would not exist today if Hitler's Nazi Party had won WWII.
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Your ignorance is showing. How could white people have 'saved my ass' when Black soldiers were there fighting along side them? AND the Black soldiers had to fight against Hitler and tolerate the discrimininaton they faced in their own military. And then go back home to face more of the same You are the one who needs to be more grateful that despite the way they were treated Black people still joined forces and fought against Hitler.
becks 10 years, 6 months ago
Man are you wrong......Hitler was totally anti-black....he considered black folk as sub-humans and they were to be exterminated.
SP 10 years, 6 months ago
@ MonkeeDoo....Is a big jackass too!
Here is another idiot that believes we are so dumb and stupid that he can convince us that cool aid is better than Champaign and beaching on Saunders beach is equal to yachting to Rose Island.
If black people backsides were so well taken cared of these last 300 years by white Europeans, how come only black people ended up living in ghettos struggling to make ends meet and all the white people have the best there is to offer, live in the best areas, own everything and live off the fat of the land?
Pull your head out of your ass......Take a look around and for Gods sake....SHUT UP!!
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Why can't you just discuss the topic at hand in a civilized manner and stop making personal attacks on people you don't know. Calling people dumb, ignorant, or 'fool' just because their opinion differs from yours is childish and immature. If the topic of slavery and, more specifically reparation for descendants of slaves offends you so much, then maybe you should not comment on the topic until you simmer down.
MonkeeDoo 10 years, 6 months ago
Tell us which African country has had any success except those colonized by Europeans. Zimbabwe is a disaster since it had "majority rule", Kenya ain't much better, Uganda - well ! Keep sittin under the dilly tree till the dilly drop buddy and stop blamin' whitey for your own shortcomings and laziness.
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Personally I would not go after reparations. I feel that those who were affected by the slave era are going to be compensated in a way far greater than a few countries signing checks for many billions of dollars. (And yes large sums of money would do more destruction than good to most people) BUT Black people kept the faith and worshipped GOD throughout the 500-plus year slave peril and God said he turned his head away just for a small moment. He blinked. But the trees heard their cries and know their sorrows. The decision to reward them for their faith and suffering will not be left to man. God knows and understands all things. And once God makes the decision which man dare question it? Their reward may not be of this world anyway.
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
That was my next question John, can we also sue the Europeans for spreading your beloved Christianity throughout Africa and the Americas ,usually at the end of a musket..??
John 10 years, 6 months ago
You have rights to sue whomsoever you wants...Christianity is not a forced religion.. No one can force you to believe...And if they win the reparations lawsuit, my Christian belief does not prevent me from accepting my share. I would pay my 10 percent tithes, make a love offering then live high on the hog, like the White folks do, till the money run out.
John 10 years, 5 months ago
By the sweat of (mans) brow shall he eat bread. Work came about because of sin and so hey work is honest.
freelance 10 years, 6 months ago
Wow really surprised at the level of racism displayed here, not cool. Black people were 'taken care of' for 300 years? Well by damn what did Africans do without Europeans for the thousands of years before the cultures met? Lol. Third world people are 'dumb'? Come on man, we can do better than that.
Let's focus: The fact is that Europe was built on slave labour in the Caribbean. Africa was not built on this labour actually it was depopulated and underdeveloped by slavery, hence current low population density and widespread poverty- therefore there are no African states to sue. When slavery was abolished, the slave OWNERS were compensated- that was wrong. Reparations are not about hand-outs, its about justice. It says that Africans are equal beings and that it was wrong to treat them like animals. It says that the blood of the ancestors mattered. But, it can't stop at reparations; what is needed is a complete re-make of the global system.
freelance 10 years, 6 months ago
losin dat focus again. lol. people who are enslaved have every right under the law to sue their enslaver. this point is not in dispute; but what you appear to be disputing is that a particular group, ie Africans, should also be able to sue.
John 10 years, 6 months ago
The lawsuit is not about us (this present generation) It is about our forefathers and what was done to them. My great grandmother was eight when they were freed from slavery and so it is not a far and distant event in history. Many in Caricom are decendants of slaves.. and many alive today lived with and shared the reality of slavery with their great grand parents. So if you took your mother to the Doctor and he mis-treated her (mal practice) you have a right to bring a lawsuit on behalf of your mother. This lawsuit is on behalf of our forefathers..get it?
John 10 years, 5 months ago
You sound more like you are an heir to the gran wizards chair in the Ku Klux Klan, all your posts demonstrate how racially prejudice you are. And laughter is good for the soul at least I make someone laugh, unlike some sour puss that want to spread hatred.
TalRussell 10 years, 6 months ago
To me it's an insult to act like Bahamaland is a black country. What the people need are steady decent paychecks not more referendums and pie in the sky talk about suing over slavery. Very few, if any, Bahamalander's consider themselves as "Afro-Bahamalander's." This land belongs to ALL Comrades, black and Bahamalander white. You saw the reception I received just for suggesting that Hubert was out of step with the thinking of the vast majority of Bahamalander''s, that Brent Symonette could never become PM, all based on the colour of he skin.
John 10 years, 6 months ago
If Brent Symonette can become an elected member of parliament, he can also become prime minister of the Bahamas. He must first become leader of his party and then his party has to win the election, and just like Hubert Ingraham, Perry Christie or LOP, he can become prime minister of this country. He could not have won his seat without support of black voters, and the fact that he did win confirms that he has that support. But by Mr. Symonettes' own words, he is finished with front line politics, at least for now... Some people did not think OBAMA could be president of the Unite States either. And he could not do it without the support of the White and Hispanic vote. Only those blinded by racism still think the possible is impossible.
freelance 10 years, 6 months ago
no, I wasn't born a slave. But, I do not know the language of my ancestors. I have lost my original name. I do not know where to go in Africa to meet my relatives. We lost a great deal during slavery, in the course of erecting magnificent European states. We can't erase the past now but those European states need to compensate me for what they stole from my ancestors (and by extension, what they stole from me). Plus interest.
UserOne 10 years, 6 months ago
It's very likely you have ancestors who were slave owners as well. Black Bahamians are not only of African descent at this stage; there has been too much mixing of black and white by now. All Bahamians have ancestors who were victims and perpertrators in this.
freelance 10 years, 6 months ago
...not to mention that the Bahamas was a colony within my lifetime, and my parents existed as second class citizens for most of their lives. Britain took their right to equality away- that was only 50 years ago. It is a myth that slavery ended in 1834.
Ocaba 10 years, 6 months ago
Perhaps CARICOM should go back further historically and sue the Arab states as well, since they were enslaving Africans long before the Europeans. As a matter of fact they were enslaving Europeans as well.
Also we should not overlook the Feudalistic period in Europe, which occurred before the European African slave trade and sue on behalf of all who were Serfs (just another form of slavery)
If one cares to delve deep enough into the historical record you will find that no race, creed, color or region is without some culpability in the slave trade.
The point is SLAVERY is wrong we should acknowledge that it happened and move forward.
Remember: If you fight for your limitations you get to keep them
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
Good post !!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Philosopher_King 10 years, 6 months ago
Let's get it straight France can demand reparation for the lost of their colony and slaves in Haiti to the tune of Billions of dollars; which were paid up until the 20th century and crippled that state. Yet if the former colonies and slaves sue for their exploitation by the from their former European masters whose wealth is still being enhanced from the money the extracted from these colonies and off the backs of the free labor it is wrong?
If that is your logic the European and his descendants who have dominated the globe through brutal force, coercion and corruption for past 500 years are truly an evil and sick people determined to keep the balance of power slanted in their favor if they believe they are the only ones entitled to compensation for being unfairly divested of their holdings and rights.
Ocaba 10 years, 6 months ago
I see my point was missed. SLAVERY is not just an Afro-Centric phenomenon although it is the most recent incarnation of this vile practice historically. Was it wrong for France to demand reparations from Haiti? Absolutely. Was it wrong for the UK to pay former slave owners? Absolutely.
At its core slavery is all about money. Will reparations allow us all to live in Lyford Cay? Not likely. Reparations will not free us from the economic slavery we find ourselves in today. We will not be freed from the lack of jobs, poor education and low paying menial jobs our own people (present and past Governments) have relegated us to.
Sorry to ramble but I believe that our issues are more contemporary and our passions and energies should be focused there.
Like the Jewish people say "Never again" . We should acknowledge our historical past learn from it and use our knowledge to move forward and ensure that it never happens to us again. We must fight for our freedoms today and insure that we will not be enslaved going forward. We cannot change the past but we can make our future.
freelance 10 years, 6 months ago
HarryBlack 10 years, 6 months ago
The difference with enslavement by Arabs or enslavement by Africans of Africans, is that those slave masters/traders did not compensate the individual slave owners at emancipation. (The European governments essentially said, "we are so sorry we have to free your workers, here's 20 million dollars.") In other words, the crime of the European governments is better documented and more recent in time. Consequently, the case that reparations are owed from said European governments, is easier to prove in a court of law today. If a case that documented the damages of others, from other periods of time could be put together and be as strong as the case against the European governments, it would. However, what I see happening with some of these comments amounts to an attempt to detract from the obvious fact that the Europeans were the only ones stupid enough to leave such a clear paper trail of their wrongdoings, affording Caricom the opportunity it has today. I say sue the living @!#? out of them...
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
Valid points to ponder,,then some could also champion the Bible as being written documentation of the Jews and others enslavement by the Romans .
HarryBlack 10 years, 6 months ago
No sir. People have tried to use the Bible as evidence in legal matters before, but the Courts have determined over and over that the Bible does not meet evidentiary requirements/the burden of proof. The evidence against the European governments however is compelling.
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Well to take it even further, what gave European ships the right to pull up to African coasts, invade the land and capture citizens of those nations, take them half ways around the world and enslave them?. African countries should also be suing. But let us get our settlement first. I don' twant their lawsuit to dilute my $40 million
TalRussell 10 years, 6 months ago
Let's see, being I am just one the the many thousands of "lick-of-da-brush" that just happens to make up a large citizenry-ship of this hereto Bahamalander, exactly how would we rate the degree of we "colour-brush" to arrive at a fair financial compensation from we law suit against we Queen? I mean we gotta get some'tin in we pockets, cause for years even Pop Symonette's kids along with me and my brothers and sisters were unwelcome to sail out of the Royal Nassau Sailing Club. I mean Pop Symonette had founded the Nassau Sailing Club, cause where else could they have housed all of we "colour-brushed" sailing enthusiasts? How in the hell can we sue our Queen whilst still singing Royal Britannia? Oh Lord protect me from my most prejudice sister who within seconds of being informed about my post, go'in be phoning me up shouting; Tal what in the hell you out there tell'in Tribune readers how we got's lick-da-bruth in we blood line? You think I'm joking.
.../ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD04yH...">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD04yH...
HarryBlack 10 years, 6 months ago
The same way you can sue your MP or the government, while still living in The Bahamas.
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Bey when they hear about M O N E Y erryone and dey ma' gat a lil touch a black in dem nah...chile please!
John 10 years, 6 months ago
WHO SAYS REPARATIONS CANNOT PUT US IN LYFORD CAY? Lets do the math: Britain paid the Slave Masters $318 billion. Since there were at least 50 times (being modest) more slaves than slave masters lets multiply that figure by 50...318 billion times 50 is 15.9 Trillion dollars. Now there are 13 countries suing so divide the 15.9 trillion by 13 and that gives 1.2 trillion dollars for the Bahamas. Then there are say 400,000 Bahamians 60, 000 of them are decendents of slave masters (thas the White folk) so they already got paid and another 20,000 are paper Bahamians who don,t qualifyin any event. Another 40,000 are of Haitian or Jamaican or Turks and Cacios decent, so since they will qualify for reparations in the countries of their forefathers, that will leave 280,000 Bahamians of slave decent to share $1.2 trillion . Each man. woman and child is therefore entitled to $40, 857,000.00 so who was saying that could not get me in Lyford Cay and behind the gates. ANd a Bently and a yacht...
banker 10 years, 6 months ago
Don't quit your day job. LOL!
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 6 months ago
I already typed up my resignation letter, I'm driving to the bank first thing tomorrow to wait on my share (and yours since you don't want it) to hit my account. I know PGC will come through on this for us
John 10 years, 6 months ago
UserOne 10 years, 6 months ago
There were black slave owners as well. Another aspect of history people like to ignore.
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Do they want the statutes of Queen Elizabeth and Columbus back too?
HarryBlack 10 years, 6 months ago
I for one like what I see happening in The Bahamas and Caribbean today. I say yes get rid of Columbus Day, yes remove the privy council, and yes sue for reparations! There is nothing racist about any of that, nothing racist at all. In actuality, one would have to be a racist themselves to label the aforementioned actions as perpetrated by racists or racist motives, Of course, bite the heck out of the hand that feeds you, especially if that hand is preventing you from feeding yourself!! Listen folks, what we are witnessing is a paradigm shift of an antiquated way of thinking. A shift toward the idea that Columbus did not discover anything, rather he disregarded the humanity of the native people he met, Furthermore, we are witnessing a shift toward a thinking that questions the necessity of the privy council, when most Bahamians disagree with what the privy council believes is in our best interest and when there are other options that would make better geographical, and thus economic sense, With regard to reparations, it is beyond important for those who can show entitlement to reparations, to do so. This is not merely because of what we stand to gain financially, this is important because of the principal of right being right and wrong being wrong. In other words, should we just let a murderer get away with murder if we can prove his/her guilt? Reparations are important for the future of the world as it sends a clear message that "you can run, but you cant hide." I say again, there is absolutely nothing racist about the position that reparations are due, or that a further distancing from other aspects of a colonial mindset is long overdue. As a matter of fact, Prime Minister Stephen Harper of Canada recently said that he "sees no use in Canada being a part of the Commonwealth." He said that the sole purpose of the Commonwealth was to appreciate a common British heritage, and he (as many Canadians do) does not feel like that is sufficient justification for Canada to be a part of it. So now ask yourself, if a predominantly white country is considering pulling away from things colonial, how is it racist and unappreciative if The Bahamas does not remain in bed with the Queen?
My dear readers, don't be tricked into thinking Europeans did anything for you by going to war with Nazis, or anything else. If you think about it long and hard enough, you will see that the Europeans always fought primarily for their own cause and not for the cause of people of color, The fact of the matter is, we should applaud this or any government that advocates for a more independent,more liberal Bahamas. Its all about freedom and justice.
Oh and by the way, my history professor was a white man of Ukrainian decent,
banker 10 years, 6 months ago
Actually in the first year of operation, the Bahamas donated $9 million to the Caribbean High Court which was supposed to be the court of last appeal, since no one wants to go begging to our colonial slave masters for their wisdom and guidance in English Common Law. And we continue to pay for it, and yet we never use the Caricom High Court? Why? Because of Caricom idiotic things like slavery reparations. But there is another more important reason. Fairness.
The Privy Council is eminently fair and totally unreachable. In the Bahamas and indeed the Caribbean, there is often only a degree or two of separation. It is easy to make a phone call to a judge who is a customer, relative, shareholder, lodge brother, church member or down low lover. Ultimate justice is not served in the Caribbean when it involves the upper crust. As an example, who killed Harl Taylor and Thad McDonald? Why hasn't Sandy Mackey the prison guard been brought to justice for his extra-judicial killing of a prisoner? Every knows who hit Hywel Jones the banker and yet he is being protected. I could list at least six bankers who are complicit in tax and duty avoidance schemes at the highest level in the country. Nope, Justice as well as everything else is for sale in the Bahamas.
As a result, Blacks get exploited. But in this whole wide world, we are ultimately responsible ourselves. Until our enlightenment becomes prominent among ourselves in the Black community, we will wallow in mediocrity as a people and as a race. Reparations -- more crumb-catching falling from the table. Instead of catching the crumbs, we should be insuring that we are sitting at the table, based on merit.
HarryBlack 10 years, 6 months ago
The Bahamas is not the only country in the region or beyond that is debating a departure from the jurisdiction of the Privy council. As a matter of fact, the Privy council themselves are questioning their relationship with us, so go figure,
You say that reparations amount to crumb catching? I beg to differ, Reparations amount to getting up from under the table and demanding the full part the meal that was wrongfully taken away from us in the first place. Reparations expose those who are already at the table, but without merit,
Finally, we are an imperfect people but that does not mean we should continue to bend over and let other imperfect people have their way with us, We need to free ourselves from the evil ideology that says we are not capable of fixing our problems ourselves, Every Bahamian should look in the mirror and ask themselves the question, "Am I capable of taking care of myself, or am I stupid?"
Rather than highlighting our past or current flaws, I say lets go after the reparations which are legally due to us, and then hold each other more accountable for the future development of our country, Lets foster the notion that says "yes we can." What's so wrong with that?
UserOne 10 years, 6 months ago
@HarryBlack "Should we let a murderer get away with murder..." If the murderer is long dead, should we punish his/her descendants for the murder? Are they responsible for a crime that their great-great-great grandmother/grandfather commited?
HarryBlack 10 years, 6 months ago
They are responsible to the extent that they benefited (and continue to benefit) economically from the crimes of their ancestors. It should be noted that some leaders of European governments today are now apologizing for slavery. So needless to say, Caricom governments are simply saying "make the apology tangible; show us the money.
HarryBlack 10 years, 6 months ago
Yes they should be.
If it can be proven in a court that the sons or daughters of a tief are well off because of their parents thievery, then the descendants of the victims who never got justice, should be able to recover damages in court.
Under no circumstance should wrongful gain be washed clean by the death of a criminal or slave owner.
John 10 years, 6 months ago
You don't have to punish the descendants of a murderer, but if they are beneficaries of the dead murderer's estate, they you can sue them for, what the word called..reparations ok restorative justice..same thing
John 10 years, 6 months ago
So how could it be racist to sue for reparations from slavery but it wasn't racist to invade the Lands of Mother Africa, capture her people (ALL B L A C K) with violence. Bring them to a strange place, enslave them mistreat them, rename them, kill many of them for FIVE THOUSAND GENERATIONS?
HarryBlack 10 years, 6 months ago
It means that white professors at Canadian universities are teaching students of every ethnicity, that people of African decent were wronged and are entitled to reparations. It means that i am not spewing African American propaganda; I am stating facts based on university research, completed by white people themselves.
Bahamianfirst 10 years, 6 months ago
Hi Tribune,
I just had to response to some of the raciest comments I've seen on this site I think that compensation is in order for slavery but I don't think that the government's of these various Caribbean nations should issue or pay out the monies to families etc. I think that what ever monies or received should with immediate effect be held in escrow for the continuing education of Caribbean peoples and their descendants in perpetuity. This would in-able all young descendants of slaves the right to higher education and further "level the playing field" if you will, of disadvantaged black men and women who are now struggling to pay their way through college and universities.
Further Tribune, for more than 400 years of enforced slavery and being denied the basic education and to even make matters worst for more than 200 years under colonial dominance the black majority in the Bahamas were denied all of these things. Therefore, I thing it is only fitting and justified that the black majority in these islands and in the Caribbean region be compensated with the basic things they were denied of in the basic and to help them achieve there goals of a higher education now..
and for those who think that this is unnecessary and look down at this effort of our Caribbean leaders I think I know why they criticizes this report in your very popular and respected media journal, and that is because many of them are of the minority who have already attained higher education or are benefiting from what they were privileged to have inherited from their families businesses!!!!!!
All we are asking for and deserve is that what we were denied that our children and their children have the same opportunities that the minorities in the Bahamas now have and the same applies to the Caribbean region.....
Muckracker 10 years, 6 months ago
Roy why dont you go back to Europe first. Bahamas is already divided if you ask me.
HarryBlack 10 years, 6 months ago
Just as you did not come from Europe, our ideologies are Bahamian, not African American. And by the way, you can insult me and call me and other black intellects any name you want, its still not going to change the fact that you are one racist ignorant fool. Every time I see that big "S" in your logo, I cant help to think that it must be for "Stupidman".
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
@John estimated everyone descended from slaves would get 40 million dollars .Lets put a more conservative number and say 4 million .Can you imagine what would happen .First everyone would quit their job ,Then the white and black business owners and merchants would make fortunes selling us land ,houses ,luxury autos ,yacths, and all manner of expensive consumer goods .IN 25 years the majority of us would be broke w/ no jobs or industry b/c we would have already told the tourist to hall ass ..
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Lets suppose we do get reparation money. Then they discover oil in the Bahamas. SO The white BAhamians get rich too. So nobody in the Bahamas want to work. so we have to send to Haiti to get people to work. But o darn they get rich or reparation money too. Does that mean we have to go back to Africa and start this whole thing all over again? But we have money so we can afford to pay our African brothers and sisters and not have to make them slaves
TalRussell 10 years, 6 months ago
Comrades since I still living in the nosy Hubert era can you please start-off when you be talk'in with the Queen at Buckingham Palace about slavery compensation, as to the (3) names for Knighthoods that Hubert himself said he had left behind on PM Christie's desk for Royal Appointment consideration by the Queen? I ain't know about you but I is much too nosy not to know the other (2) names, cause pretty damn sure one them is Comrade attorney Brian Moree?
BahamianRaised 10 years, 6 months ago
Seriously! Why don't we instead have the people that are committing crimes in the Bahamas sue the "donors" that brought them into this world and then left. A class action suit of this sort would make a lot more sense and deal with present day issues that are relevant to "this century" and our country. I would never want someone living 100+ years from now to be responsible for my bad choices. Governments around this globe, particularly in the USA are using the vitriol and hatred born by racism to pursue political gains. At the end of the day they still have all of their great benefits, retirement and pay and they all socialize together. I am the offspring of two very different races and have found beauty and flaws in both of them. Which part of me should I condemn? Which parent should I hate? Consider how you allow people, politics and society to mold and craft your thinking and character. No one owes me anything...each man will give an account for himself. My white parent did not own any slaves and never would. My black parent was never a slave and will never be. The love they share has lasted over 60 years. How dare someone charge that a payment be made simply because one is white not of their own choosing. Bahamaland, love and forgive as God want us to. Cling to what is good. Hate that which is evil.
LexxBrown 10 years, 6 months ago
LOL I wish the rulings send all blacks back to Africa with the money.
John 10 years, 6 months ago
Then all whites would have to go back to Europe, Asians back to then maybe the American Native Indians can reposses their land. But the Bahamas and Caribbean would be left null and barren because Colombus killed out the original Arawaks.
HarryBlack 10 years, 6 months ago
At least you are admitting "the blacks" are owed money.
John 10 years, 6 months ago
I haven't been brainwashed by anyone... ALL I WANT IS MY GREAT GRAND DADDYS MONEY, AND MY GREAT, GREAT. GRAND DADDY'S MONEY AND GREAT, GREAT, GRAND DADDY AND MY GREAT GRAN MA' AND HER GREAT GRAND MAS..PAY FOR THEIR LABOUR..DOES THAT SOUND LIKE BRAINWASH TO YOU HOW MUCH GREATER DO I HAS TO GO TO SHOW I AINT BRAINWASHED. wE BLACK FOLK LIVED ALMOST FIVE HUNDRED YEARS WORKING FOR NO MONEY..DON'T YOU THINK IS TIME WE GET PAID..?
Muckracker 10 years, 6 months ago
Have you seen South Africa, it makes Bahamas look like a huge shanty town
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
The Ashanti empire were in constant warfare conquering other tribes for prisoners to supply the slave trade ,many died in the battles and many died in the march to the coast .What should their descendents be made to pay ??.Children are bought now in sub sahara Africa for 30 to 40 dollars and sold for 350 dollars to the wealthier politically connected in the oil and diamonds rich countries like Nigeria ,for the sex trade and as household servants ,should these leaders have to contribute ,For an eye opener read about slavery in Africa today ,,
John 10 years, 6 months ago
The Atlantic (African)slave trade was the largest in the history of the world. AT LEST 12 MILLION PERSONS were enslaved and another TEN MILLION AFRICANS lost their lives during the time of slavery. OVER TWENTYTWO MILLION PEOPLE UP-ROOTED! MOre than three times the number of Jews killed by Hitler!
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
The Romans enslaved over 100 million people.Look up "slavery in Africa today " Hereditary and the Arabs trading in slaves came long before the "middle passage ,what do they owe ? What do the Africans that first sold their prisoners of tribal war for salves and went to war just to procure prisoners to be sold as slaves owe ?? How about the millions that died in these wars and the march to the coast ,,what do they owe ?? More then one race benefited to enrich themselves .. ..
John 10 years, 6 months ago
When I get my reparation money I don't want to appear mean or racist.. So I will hire concernedcitzien to chauffeur me in my Bently and Rory will be the butler at my Lyford Cay house..but he cusses too much so will have to send him to Africa to brush up on his language..to learn how to make those sweeping bows when I enter my palace..LMAO
John 10 years, 5 months ago
B L A C K !
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
@John So are you implying that you know what color i am or that i,m a racist ??Am i a racist because i pointed out that the Europeans could not have enslaved so many Africans if the African warlords had not been supplying the slaves to enrich themselves ,or perhaps if the African warlords had banded togeather and fougth the Europeans there may have been no "middle passage " Or are you implying i,m racist b/c i pointed out that in the medievil period the Arabs enslaved millions of Africans ??Which factual statement makes you want to hire me as your chauffeur and how do you know i won,t collect fantasy "repartriation " money like you ??
HarryBlack 10 years, 6 months ago
If it can be proven in a Court today, any profit or gain that was wrongfully acquired should be awarded to the descendants of the victims who never received justice. There should not be any "letting it slide" because of time.
For example: If you can prove Tom's grandson has a car that was stolen from your grandfather, you are not doing your grandfather or yourself any favor if you don't ask for his property back! If it was never stolen, your grandfather may have willed it to you.
So stop letting these sorry excuses for human beings get away with brainwashing good people to think that demanding what is rightfully ours, is somehow pointless. I say get the reparations, and forgive them simultaneously. Not one or the other.
bloody1967 10 years, 6 months ago
what a bunch of idiots u all are , never ever will u c a penny , stopped being blindsided with foolishness , concentrate on what will enrich your lives and that of your children in this life , how about we all SUE THE FNM PLP and the lot for all the cronyism , corruption , nepotism , theft , and blatant raping of this country , what this nonsense slavery suit will profit you , lets me guess representation by DAVIS & CO at about $3,000,000.00 of taxpayers money and the continued raping of the Bahamas, that's real slavery people , ignorance with false hope and Jackarzz Leadership ..... I say it once and I will say it again , Bahamians R SO STUPID
John 10 years, 6 months ago
YOU R SO RIGHT BAHAMIANS (would be) SO R STUPID to sue a bunch of people who are so broke (FNM AND PLP) We talking BILLIONS...NOT $100 and a T shirt
Bahamianfirst 10 years, 6 months ago
@bloody1967 I wonder why people like you a the rest of the smart white people begrudge these "stupid" Bahamians from at lest attempting to wright a wrong that was force on our ancestors and their decedents how for the love of me is the hurting you and your kind?
But perhaps from reading your various comments I think that you really believe we Bahamians are "stupid" and yes should stay under foot forever but for my generation and others we see the world changing and people like you and your kind are shrinking and perhaps in the future we will one day see a "BLACK" man or woman in the parliament of England, just as we see in the USA now, and maybe not now but in the future true justice and reparation for slavery will come I can assure of that OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE The world is changing for the better THANK GOD..................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bloody1967 10 years, 6 months ago
Bahamian First , I am a Bahamian , and a Black Bahamian at that , I AM not a Afro Bahamian , that does not exist , I am not stupid like our brethren in the USA , putting tags on my identity , Afro dis and Afro dat , foolishness. I am BAHAMIAN , and Black in complexion , maybe just like you. The difference is we hold an opinion which differs.In the period of slavery in the CARRIBEAN and USA , some 200,000 Aficans went to America and some 100,000 were scattered about the Carribean , Sir or Madam I myself , my mother , father , grand mother , great grand parents WERE NOT AMONGST THEM. And I am quite certain the same for you. The Bahamas should not waste its time asking for something it will not receive because it is not entitled too. Every race on this planet has been manipulated and enslaved at some point , The slave traders in Africa did not engage in capturing slaves for trade they BOUGHT them from people in AFRICA far darker than you or me . Do your history and find the African tribes and Families that enriched themselves selling their own blood . I will give you ONE family, that of the Great Hailie Salasie was a big time trader and today they still live off their wealth from those days ,( RASTERS TAKE NOTE ).. Bahamian people , education is greater than UN DUE reparations , know and understand the ideology before you jump on a political loss bandwagon... you were never affected by slavery , nor was I ,so stop BS yourself and realize that , by the way we ( BLACK ) people are already members and have been members of Parliament in the United Kingdom England ) for over 30 years , so that not the future its both history and present . Just like I said yesterday , Davis & Co , will be representing the Bahamas when it gets to a point of A LEGAL petition , just like I thought , the Dep. Prime Minister Law Firm gets the case at oh my Goodness what price to the Bahamian Taxpayers , THATS SLAVERY , AND HE BRITISH OR WHITE , WAKE UP MAN ...... like I said before and I will say it again , BAHAMIANS R SO STUPID
HarryBlack 10 years, 6 months ago
Just as you did not come from Europe, our ideologies are Bahamian, not African American. And by the way, you can insult me and call me and other black intellects any name you want, its still not going to change the fact that you are one racist ignorant fool. Every time I see that big "S" in your logo, I cant help to think that it must be for "Stupidman". You can't even argue your point without sounding worse than a 10 year old. Just look at your silly posts.. How old are you?
John 10 years, 6 months ago
12 million people working for 500 years (in slavery) another 10 million of our forefathers dead..now what were you saying about hand out...I'm sure you mean "hand me the rest" (of what you owe me!)
banker 10 years, 6 months ago
Oh why do I agree with this? Funny, but true. My fellow countrymen are first in line for free stuff, sumfing fer nuttin', gettin' stuff by bein' lazy, and let's not fergit da toters.
shortpants 10 years, 6 months ago
@bloody1967 & rory you'll have so much hate for blacks that you'll can't even have a conversation with out berating blacks you'll are so sorry I guess you'll wish you'll were never born . A bunch of sore losers . BAHAMIANS R SO STUPID so stay you''ll black and white ass from off these site.And since we are so stupid why don't you'll just go to hell, the devil have better things for you'll to do and say.
digimagination 10 years, 6 months ago
Well, read this... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-24560937">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-24560937
concernedcitizen 10 years, 6 months ago
@digimagination,,the link won,t come up ??
John 10 years, 5 months ago
HOW MANY SLAVES IN THE CARIBBEAN OR BAHAMAS? I'll go watch ROOTS, the long version while you check. Anyways folks, I am requesting that they pay me my reparation money in gold. I understand that there is a plan afoot to crash the world's economy as soon as we are paid. Then the countries can declare bankruptcy to make the money too difficult to collect or make it a long drawn out process. When the economy collapses, the value of gold will double.
John 10 years, 5 months ago
yessa, yes sir massa rory, sir!
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