TRIBUNE readers overwhelmingly feel Operation Potcake should continue according to its original model, with 98 per cent of those voting in an online poll supporting the inclusion of foreign volunteers.
Asked whether the mass spay and neuter campaign should incorporate foreign vets donating their time, as was the case during the first project last January, or be run entirely by local vets at a cost of $50 per surgery, only 14 of the 637 votes supported the latter option.
It was announced last week that organisers had to cancel the project after local vets blocked the entry of their foreign counterparts who were set to take part.
It was instead proposed that local vets undertake a shortened project, which they admitted would sterilise “not nearly” as many dogs, at a cost of $50 per surgery.
The local organisers said they had raised money for surgical supplies, but that the price being asked now was far too steep, and that the shortened project would fail to make enough of an impact to be worth the time and money involved.
Calling the local vets’ stance “backwards”, reader HarryWyckoff pointed out: “They’ve had years to step up and help with the nation’s potcake problem, and have failed miserably.
“Now they are refusing to allow vets volunteering from overseas to enter the country to help deal with the problem.”
FamilyIslandMan said: “This was a good thing, a simple thing. People coming from all over to help our potcakes, educate our children and support our Bahamaland. . . It’s just sad.”
Jftbrian said: “For those who sat in consideration of allowing foreign vets into run this caring campaign, I firstly ask you to look at your conscience. Surely the care and welfare of the animals concerned should be your primary focus.
“I really can see no reason for you not to welcome with open arms and a whole load of gratitude fellow professionals, to run this operation that you as professionals have chosen to ignore for years.
“It is appalling that as veterinary professionals, you have chosen to embarrass the government, your fellow Bahamians and your foreign peers...”
One commentator, using the name of a local vet, sought to defend his profession, pointing out that “Bahamian vets have been doing pro bono work and organising and participating in free and low cost spay and neuter programmes for the past 40 years!
“The reason that the stray and roaming dog problem is still with us relates more to ineffective canine control that a lack of spay and neuter programmes. Operation Potcake did 2,200 spays/neuters which was a wonderful effort. Proud Paws has done over 7,000 spays/neuters over the past 10 years using only Bahamian vets and Bahamian surgical assistants funded by Bahamian residents; no outside vets were required.”
This commentator also suggested that local vets are tired of the lack of respect they get from the animal welfare community in light of all their efforts.
But ETJ said: “This is not about respect for Bahamian vets. Any vet who is offended by this backlash should try to read (the Veterinary Medical Association of the Bahamas’) letter through the eyes of non-vet animal advocates who are working hard to end the suffering of animals in this Bahamas. It comes off as arrogant and self serving, and now it has gone international.
“That letter did not inspire any affection or respect for Bahamian vets, which is a shame as those of us who live here do understand what a challenge it must be to have a successful practice given the cultural mores and attitudes towards animals.
“If a vet is unable financially to donate their time and supplies, there is no shame in that; God knows in this economic climate, many people are struggling and everyone in this Bahamas can understand and sympathise with that. It’s obvious that there are simply not enough local vets to effectively deal with this problem.
“No one is saying that foreign vets are better in any way than local ones. Right now this country is suffering horribly – thousands of our citizens don’t even know where their next meal is coming from. Many of them have pets. This is where the majority of problem lies.
“We have a huge problem here that has been ignored for far too long, with thousands of suffering animals, and if it takes outside help initially to rectify it, there is no shame and disrespect for anyone in that. What would be shameful is if the Veterinary Medical Association of the Bahamas continues on this obstructionist path, and the animal population continues to spiral out of control, as it is doing as I type.”
Comments
rory 10 years, 4 months ago
Finally a different doggy :)
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 4 months ago
Aren't you concerned about what happened to the other one? Why did he just disappear like that?
TruthSayer 10 years, 4 months ago
Let's hope everyone can put this sad chapter to rest and move forward to do the right thing for the animals and the community.
B_I_D___ 10 years, 4 months ago
I love how the VMAB is VERY quiet about all this. I was very quick to jump on a few of the vets that spoke out to 'defend' the decision...but were in fact trying to defend the PROFESSION's integrity...but...it all got muddled up in the wash...for the past president to approve this years actions, then to get it revoked by the new board is a really sad show...and I hope as a group, they look internally as to what is best to maintain the profession in the publics eye...unless they want to form a union and government and jump into the double dip benefit crew. Veterinary medicine can be profitable...and is thankless, but you have to remain cooperative to all these initiatives. I think in retrospect, the VMAB boards spin, may have caused such a rift amongst it's own community that it may implode amongst itself. The new hire of the board should be ousted and shamed.
TruthSayer 10 years, 4 months ago
Well said. I am also sure that the members of all the other groups will be willing to work along side the vets if they go back to what was originally agreed upon. No loss, no foul.
john33xyz 10 years, 4 months ago
In terms of Karma, I feel very sorry for those local vets who have made this senseless decision.
However, this seems normal for the Bahamas. Our BEC and Batelco crews won't have Canadian techs (from whom we get all our equipment) come down and do training and analysis of the grid etc.
After Hurricane Floyd, the internationally well known group "Doctors Without Borders" tried to enter the Bahamas to DONATE their time (as they do all over the world) to providing emergency care and also psychological care especially to children who may have been traumatized by that incredible natural disaster - but were TURNED AWAY at the airports by Bahamas Immigration since they had no work permits. This was just a few days after the hurricane had passed. Everyone was busy trying to get things done and fixed and find a glimmer of hope - meanwhile Immigration was busy trying to NOT get things done.
It's too bad that following that refusal they did not change their name officially to "Doctors Without Borders Except for the Bahamas"
As I've said in several posts. As Bahamians (by vast majority) - if we can't be sorrowful, ignorant and generally backward - we would rather not be alive.
Domin1 10 years, 4 months ago
Ay yay yay! What a damning indictment, you might catch some karma yourself for that one.
Operation Potcake pay the Vets the money $50 x 150 for their three day commitment. I hear you if you say there won't be enough left to run the volume clinic but guarantee it on funds raised on the back end for next year (I assume OP doubles as a fundraising drive for the following year?) If you come upon a year that you're sure won't yield enough to cover the Vets portion and the volume spays and neuters then you cancel, but only after having furthered everyone's charitable dreams of ending animal suffering.
OR
Animal Balance pay them the money up front and fund-raise in the weeks preceding the event to re-coup some but also take from the back end and guarantee your involvement for the next year.
OR
Find a way! Win-win situations are always in the last place we look for them.
@Foreigners - pride, money, and local responsibility are the reasons why the cities from whence you came most likely do not have shambolic records of animal care and problems with strays. So you remember that the next time you want to point such a harsh finger at groups in developing countries that want to do the same.
And stop saying they're free, they're not free, you just haven't given anything. So we love your time, but we need your money. Charities don't run on charity and goodwill, they run on hard work and money. And they don't cure social ills, you get out what you put in.
@Bahamians O-mi-god you sting, people are reluctant to get involved because the negativity is like trying to swim in hot grits and getting the work done is like trying to swim in cold grits. Those Vets you're so quick to demonise have to balance all facets of animal care year-round when animal welfare hasn't quite made it to the list of priorities and there is still even more charitable work to be done and you're calling for their heads without a full understanding of their position (they are suspiciously quiet but I suspect they're taking cover til the bombs stop). You know more than anybody the circumstances concerning animal welfare in this country.
@Vets- if your money, national pride (go Vets!), and charitable responsibility can through negotiations be satisfied can the event take place? If there are still reasons unknown (please don't be xenophobia! #ainnobodygatnotimefodat) why this can't take place then again I say fair enough it is your ball game, but if you didn't know before, you do know now, you are accountable to the public for those reasons, animal welfare is not yours to take home with you when you go.
@Rory - Chinese restaurant has to be the funniest thing I have ever read on this entire site on any post, way to break up the tensions with good ol' fashion smart-assery.
Piratepartyinthe242 #JonasSalk4eva
TruthSayer 10 years, 4 months ago
If you read through the ACTUAL costs of the surgery (and yes, everyone knows it's not free, drugs and supplies cost money) the Vets say it costs them $50 per surgery, but the ACTUAL costs are between $17 and $20 per surgery. OP has full cost breakdown and has posted it.
Even if they did pay the $50 to the Vets, the Vets have admitted they cannot do more than 3 days and only a few can help with the 3 days. They were asked to commit 5 days, but it's to hard on them. The original plan (which the previous VMAB agreed to, was 5 days, joint project and do 1000 surgeries. But the Vets can only do 3 days, don't want any help, do the surgeries at a cost that is more than double the cost that OP does them and only do 150 surgeries TOTAL, because they won't let foreign volunteers come in.
So, they either need to figure out how to do 1000 surgeries at a reasonable cost or let foreign volunteers come in to help.
How is that so hard to understand? The VMAB clearly says they cannot do the work required. Yes, there is Bahamian pride but lets not forget:
Proverbs 16:18 "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."
In the end, it's really OK to accept help. There is even more pride in realizing you can't do it alone.
Domin1 10 years, 4 months ago
I've read all the posts on this issue barring the few that came in last night and this morning and I know that your actual costs are $20; Their actual costs are $50 to fund their year round charity out of the same pot and if you're still puzzled go to any shop here, you can scream your head of that the actual cost for a t-shirt is 3 for $10 but when you leave your receipt will still say $30 and if you want to take up arms for that then buddy I'm right behind you.
Above all I was routing for a win-win and some flexibility on both sides when I asked the vets if the event can still go on I mean the event that you have all been fighting so doggedly for, you know the one that includes the foreigners. They might discover that they can take $35 instead of $50 but also instead of $20. But if in the end after doing a lot more work to reach an understanding, the event still cannot go on Bahamian Vets, advocates, laypeople, layabouts, it's still OURS to pick up the pieces and carry on.
Domin1 10 years, 4 months ago
And in case you still don't understand I'm saying do 150 @ $50, 850 @ $20 raise more funds to pay the difference, out of next year's if needs be, Foreign Vets happy, Bahamian Vets happy or in some variation of those numbers is where the solution lies. But make no mistake after you go home, in the hands of happy Bahamian vets is where the fate of these animals lie.
C_MonMan 10 years, 4 months ago
Why you continue to repeat this when you yourself in another post admit that you do not know it to be true is very strange. Below is a direct quote from the actual letter the local vets sent to OP dealing with the $50 fee, "Thirdly, in pledging our commitment to this undertaking, we have also agreed to acquire our own materials for OP, thereby providing you with more time to dedicate to other aspects of the planning. We can assure you that the best approach to the acquisition of our supplies would be best accomplished by each individual veterinarian, as sifting through the differences in personal preferences to materials can become exhaustive. Also, each veterinarian can make their own determinations of quantity of supplies, based on past experience, and the predicted number of animals that can be done by each person. With that said each veterinarian would like remuneration in the amount of $50 per animal after services are rendered, which we all agree is a nominal fee for our efforts. Not only will we acquire our own anesthesia, but ALL surgical and medical supplies will be provided by the local veterinarians. The financial climate in the country demands that we take into account the possibility that donation of our time to efforts like these can potentially create a negative impact on our practices, so it is only fair that while we do not seek to make a profit from an exercise as charitable as this one, that we do not ignore our own expenses, to our detriment." This is after the local vets agreed to perform the same surgeries for $30 per animal. After new officers were elected, they informed OP that foreign vets were not needed and increased the fee to $50. There is no mention of funding any year round charity in their letter. This is not about gotcha, but if we are going to have dialogue, let's not engage in silly tricks and keep the focus on where it needs to be which is the stray dog/cat epidemic in the country.
Domin1 10 years, 4 months ago
I know that but they said they re-negotiated the price from $30 to $50, they explained why, you in your world in your math always expect prices to go down but in other people's real world sometimes they go up and up and up. I don't know why they haven't reached the point of diminishing returns but I suspect it's because they are all to familiar with the work and costs of animal welfare in The Bahamas and still feel that they shouldn't take themselves out of the equation even if it amounts to a higher total. And I got that they want to do more charitable work from the few of 274 posts that were begging for some understanding of the work they have on their plate not OP's plate. And I can't call anybody a liar, not until I know they're lying.
Why do you think they upped the price on charity work?
C_MonMan 10 years, 4 months ago
There is no need to attack me as this is really not about me or you. My only point is that the local vets have penned a letter that makes their position and intentions crystal clear. If they have changed their stated position or intentions I am sure they are fully qualified and capable of communicating that. So unless you are representing them or possess actual non-public information about their stated position or intentions it really does not serve the dialogue to present as fact that which you know to be only conjecture, supposition and inference which directly contradicts the local vets own letter.
Domin1 10 years, 4 months ago
I haven't even read past your first sentence but if you think I'm attacking you then I have said something wrong and I have done more harm than good. I am sincere in my question.
Domin1 10 years, 4 months ago
All of this is a public forum and whether it came from an official letter or unofficial posts several positions have been made public.
But I concede and nullify all reference to their charity work; based on the excerpt from that letter alone I still agree that they know what they are doing with their math and I still see no damning evidence of unfair negotiations because you still have a situation of competing markets. And if we are cutting away the fat, any supposition that they are greedy, or ineffectual, or shameful can go out the window too.
And I in no way present myself as an authority, but last time I checked I was still on and informal forum that welcomed most ideas and the only restrictions I was under was no cursing and to maintain respect. If you are telling me now that I have spoken out of turn, then I can easily accept that as well. Ain't no thang.
Domin1 10 years, 4 months ago
And it seems you got your timeline wrong: The local Vets asked for $50 then after they refused, they said they didn't need the help not ask for $50 and said they didn't need the help.
C_MonMan 10 years, 4 months ago
It is not my timeline, I am merely reading the local vets actual letter and not inferring from the various post. In point one of their letter they said, "Firstly, we politely decline the offer to have the additional veterinarians come in to assist in surgeries". In point three of the same letter they said, "With that said each veterinarian would like remuneration in the amount of $50 per animal after services are rendered," both in the same letter contemporaneously.
Domin1 10 years, 4 months ago
Then it seems you got your timeline right
Domin1 10 years, 4 months ago
IF six weeks after OP takes place an army of spayed and neutered dogs ravage downtown and the cruise port and the government decides it's time for the animals to be rounded up and destroyed, Fighting to destroy them humanely will fall on the laps of Bahamian vets and advocates and money will have to be raised again for that programme AND to delay the inevitable as long as possible with adoption drives and housing and care. All facets of animal welfare is their business and they have to account for all of it.
Pragmatic management of this issue is not just about spaying and neutering or love and care. It's mostly about money which is why I suspect they have asked for more.
Ironically we are still fortunate in this situation that management of strays hasn't advanced to that of modern cities because they destroy their animals quickly. Our vets are caring enough and advocate enough and are not capricious or OP wouldn't even be on the table (last year, this, year or any year) in the first place
So again I say I hope for a win-win, who hates a win-win?
banker 10 years, 4 months ago
Must you? One can disagree without being personally nasty.
UserOne 10 years, 4 months ago
Apparently rory can't. He has perfected personal nastiness and his comments are not worth reading as a result.
blackcat 10 years, 4 months ago
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define...">http://www.urbandictionary.com/define...
I hope Rory is a troll- I hope his views really aren't as stupid and nasty as they come across in this forum. He makes no attempt to be considerate or focus on the issues at hand in a constructive way-- I am not saying I have a problem with his opposition to any particular issue, it is snarly and degrading language that is a problem. I'm assuming he is just looking to rile everyone up- please excuse him.
1pnewman 10 years, 4 months ago
I personally believe him to be an uneducated cretin who always bring some type of racial or xenophobic slant to the discussion, be it warranted or not.
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