Reader poll
Do you agree with FNM MP Hubert Chipman that children born in the Bahamas to Haitians should be given status?
- Yes, they should be given status
- No, they should not be given status
150 total votes.
By RASHAD ROLLE
Tribune Staff Reporter
rrolle@tribunemedia.net
OPPOSITION Shadow Minister of Foreign Affairs Hubert Chipman is a “firm believer” in naturalising children born in the Bahamas to Haitian parents with the St Annes MP telling Haitian President Michel Martelly yesterday that the issue is something the Free National Movement would have to address if it is returned to power.
However, when The Tribune questioned party leader Dr Hubert Minnis on the official position of the FNM on the issue he distanced himself from Mr Chipman’s comments. Dr Minnis said that people must “follow the law on the books”, adding that the issue requires further investigation before a solution can be presented.
The men were representing their party during a formal meeting with Mr Martelly and members of his government in the Minority Room of the House of Assembly.
The issue is something that is also a priority for Haitian officials, Mr Martelly said.
“There is a call by my government to address the issue of stateless Haitians, people who have no papers,” he told reporters yesterday. “That we are working on. We have studied (it) really right after the issue of the Dominican Republic, we have realised that in certain cases Haitians did not have papers. So we are working at that level.”
Earlier this year the government of the Dominican Republic revoked the citizenship of nearly 200,000 people who were born in the country to Haitian parents.
“There are many different cases and we need to treat them on a case by case basis,” the president said.
President Martelly is in the country with a delegation of Haitian officials this week for trade and migration talks with Bahamian officials.
“I’m a firm believer that the Bahamas cannot be built by Bahamians alone,” Mr Chipman told Mr Martelly after the president responded to his question about what is being done to “stop or curtail” illegal migration of Haitians to the Bahamas.
“Just like any other country, it takes a melting pot to build a country the way you would want it (to be built). So there is room in this country and I think we quantify it in terms of the number of Haitians that may be here and a lot of them are legal, a lot of them are born here. And that’s something that our government and - when we get back in power - we have to address in terms of there’s no such thing in my mind as a stateless Haitian because a Haitian born to Haitians is a Haitian.
“But they’ve never been to Haiti. They don’t know Haiti in most cases as they were born here. I firmly agree that we need to do something in terms of naturalising these people in terms of allowing them to contribute. Right now as it stands they cannot go to the bank to borrow money. They cannot build houses and so forth. But once that happens, then they would be a part of the community and contribute, which they are doing now.”
Dr Minnis, who spoke to The Tribune after his meeting with the Haitian president, said: “Follow the laws at this particular point in time. At present one has to follow whatever laws are in place and then other matters have to be discussed not from an individual’s perspective, but we must bring in all the professionals with knowledge in that particular area so we could come up with a solution. At this particular time, the FNM follows the law.”
Mr Chipman’s comments echoed those of FNM Central and South Abaco MP Edison Key, who slammed successive governments last month for failing to address the long standing immigration issue that some believe has led to the marginalisation of a large group of people.
He called on the government to move quickly and humanely to address the growing problem that he feels will soon become unmanageable.
Mr Key said: “These people, particularly the people that live in the Mud and Pigeon Peas, that’s my constituency, are people that have children born there now who are doctors, lawyers, defence force officers, police, nurses.”
“They make a contribution and I blame all the governments for the situation they have to live in. They are human just like me and you and everybody else.
“There should be a more humane approach,” he added. “You’re born in a country, you don’t have no passport, and when you’re 18 you can only apply and they don’t have to give you any consideration for citizenship. But yet you are Bahamian if you look at it by your birth certificate.”
Currently, those born in the Bahamas to non-Bahamian parents are entitled to apply for Bahamian citizenship between their 18th and 19th birthdays.
However, the naturalisation process, which is not automatic, has been criticised as tedious, lengthy, inconsistent and discriminatory, with calls made to at least lower the age requirement for those applying for citizenship.
Observers have also criticised successive administrations for stalling at attempts to address the issue, arguing that citizenship’s value as a political bargaining chip is often exploited.
Last week Prime Minister Perry Christie said the government will undertake a study to address the status of people born in the country to foreign parents.
Comments
B_I_D___ 9 years, 8 months ago
Well this should whip up some discussion..gonna sit back and watch the fireworks!!
sheeprunner12 9 years, 8 months ago
What is the "law on the books"???????? That the Minister responsible for Immigration can make almost carte blanche decision on who becomes a citizen of The Bahamas???????
jackbnimble 9 years, 8 months ago
I have lost my respect for Mr. Chipman and I certainly won't be voting FNM in the next election if this is how his party is thinking. Mercifully, he does not represent the FNM or the majority because he will find that most right-thinking Bahamians would not agree to this. One only has to listen to the talk shows or follow social media. Any time you want to start a firestorm, talk about Haitian migration and their perceived "rights" to citizenship in The Bahamas after breaking our law, entering our country illegally and then "havin' chirren".
The bottom line is this is a vexing problem that needs to be addressed and not in the far future. He should take his cue from Dr. Minnis, and choose his words carefully when making any comments in this regard,
TalRussell 9 years, 8 months ago
Comrade Chippie has gone all bananas if he really thinks his red supporters will support growing bananas and corn to sell (donate) to Haiti, cause the whole world knows President Martally has no foreigner cash to pay anybody for bananas and corn. Chippie just sank his party's support even deeper than Minnis, Loretta and Daron has tried so damn hard at for past 2 years.
letitbeme 9 years, 8 months ago
We cheapen our citizenship, and wha it means to be Bahamian, when we would even consider such absurdity.
Emac 9 years, 8 months ago
This man is talking out of both of his asses! The fact of the matter is that there is a problem with the overflow of illegal Haitians who are dwelling in this country, living off the fat of the land. As a matter of importance, address that issue before talkin shite. Let me state further that I am by no means xenophobic,but every country must look after the interest of its own people first. I can say for sure that Bahamians are second-class citizens in their own country. This all boils down to Bahamian officials greed for money. Why in God's name do we pretend to be roundin up illegals then set them free for $1,300? As I mentioned before, this place that I call my home and love so dearly is a whoring country. We are eager to sell our front to anyone who comes along with a few dollars in hand. Can't blame the government because it is the people that make or break the government.
TalRussell 9 years, 8 months ago
Both PM Christie and Haiti's President Martelly are now into their third year as their respective nation's leaders. So is Minnis as Her Majesty Official Opposition Leader into his third year. Neither Christie or Martelly have offered their people anything but excuse after excuse for why they have turned their campaign promises into nothing more than pure rhetoric, when the evidence points to both leaders failure at even having a plan in the works for transforming the lives of their people. President Martelly claims he has been responsible since taking office for reducing the by half the 1.5 million Haitians left homeless after the 2010 earthquake and forced to live squalid camps. What Martelly and Christie want tell their people, is that of the 317,000 who successful left those torrid tent camps, there are signs that some 100,000 could have ended up entering living, working and having babies "illegally" in Bahamaland? The PM can smile his big smile that the way solve the economical unsustainable illegal Haitian problems is to issue even more work permits to farm labour foreigners to pant and grow bananas, corn and anything else Bahamaland soil can grow so we can sell (donate) cause Haiti has no dam cash buy anything from any country.
Hogfish 9 years, 8 months ago
my 5c; maybe it's just me but I think this can be easily sorted out.
If the parents were here ILLEGALLY then Citizenship for the children should NOT be an option. Permanent Residency, yes!. But citizenship NO.
If the parents were here LEGALLY, paying work permits and living and making their life here like proper upstanding citizens and contributing to the economy. Then Yes, the child should have the option of citizenship without question. - which is how it is right now.
The critical difference here is that if you give citizenship to children from ILLEGAL immigrants then you are rewarding an illegal activity and you will also open the floodgates to every pregnant hatian woman to jump on a boat!!
sheeprunner12 9 years, 8 months ago
DITTO
pilgrimagerock 9 years, 8 months ago
Very well said
Bunni 9 years, 8 months ago
Amen!! Your 5c is correct!.
SP 9 years, 8 months ago
The PLP and FNM are both out to lunch and couldn't give a dam what you fools that voted for them think.
Why would they suddenly care what you idiots think now, when they haven't cared what you thought over 40 years?
Kick'em in the ass again PLP & FNM....They want to die PLP & FNM......So be it!
TalRussell 9 years, 8 months ago
Comrade Chippie is this how you and your red colleagues plan on setting the red shirts 2017 General Elections goals? What are you doing to prevent illegals, regardless of their nationality from giving birth at PMH at taxpayers expense. Where is the evidence you ever said one single word when thousands of children of illegals (born here and brought with them on their illegal journey's) are being educated at our school, all at taxpayers expense?Tell me Comrade Chippie is it right for taxpayers to pay for schooling, healthcare, social assistance, all the while these same illegals are lining-up on paydays to remit a portion of their paychecks to their family members living in their own homeland?
Checkertwo 9 years, 8 months ago
Chipman foolishly believes this stance will help the FNM get the “Haitian” vote. But at what price - they will LOOSE even more Bahamian votes in the process. What dummies!!! It is past time for Brave Patriotic leadership in government.
SP 9 years, 8 months ago
Go to hell PLP & FNM and take your dam Haitians with you!
Beywhatusay 9 years, 8 months ago
It is a well known fact that many Bahamians (not all) are racist toward Haitians, and I am Bahamian saying that…..born and bred! What is appalling to me is the human factor that Mr. Chipman is alluding to that all you above have missed. Well, the Haitian children who are now adults, didn't ask to be born, have never left the Bahamas and now because of archaic laws are sent back to a destitute land they don't know. Whether you want to believe it or not that would be like me sending a Bahamian of Bahamian parentage to a country that speaks a foreign language in many regards be it the native tongue, traditions, day to day life, etc. How would you feel? Mr. Chipman is not referring to the Haitian illegals that are just coming to us now. He is referring to those who have a Bahamian birth certificate, holds many diplomas from various private or public schools in our country, and who may even own a company that employs Bahamians.
I dare you all to admit to yourselves that you have a family member that has gotten pregnant and then went to America to have their child so that they could have American citizenship (that is the new popular thing to do). Why are so many of our people doing it I suppose? Could it be to take advantage of the same reasons you all are denying "Bahamians" born of Haitian parents the privileges that comes with citizenship? Need I remind you that those same family members will be taking advantage of American benefits that they never contributed to. The difference here is that the Haitians are contributing, illegal or not. I wonder how many of those Bahamian-American citizens will be paying taxes. I predict lots of Bahamians going to prison for unpaid taxes.
No one is saying that our immigration policies don't need work, they need to be thrown out and redone. However, just like anything new that affects present day effects from the past, there must be "grandfathering" in and in this situation a naturalization of stateless Haitians.
The Bahamas has long been a homogenous society with a homogenous identity. (We) The Bahamas are unfamiliar with how to incorporate other cultures into our society. If we are going to participate in the new globalized society we must deal with failed immigration policies that are the effects of 41 years of FNM and PLP governments. We must deal with this as people, and we must deal with it humanely. The reality that there will be more Haitians than Bahamians in the next 5 years is not a mathematical figment of the imagination, it is a certainty that must be acknowledged.
Hogfish 9 years, 8 months ago
Ssooo … you fully acknowledge that there will be more Haitians than Bahamians and yet you want to encourage that progression? hmm..
Haitians for the most part don’t want to BECOME Bahamians. I know of a Haitian gardener that’s been working on a large fancy (foreign owned) estate since 1986. He still only speaks 5 words of English. They want to talk Haitian and hang out with Haitians in areas that have more Haitians than Bahamians.
The Bahamian population is too small to handle it. We’re about what? 250k+ You WILL end up with a dilution of identity. You WILL end up with a dilution of culture.
Look at Cubans in FL. Or Mexicans in areas of the southern US and in Los Angeles. This has been the result of the born=usa policy.
But it doesn’t stop there, look at Turkish villages in Germany. Or Pakistani influence in the UK, like Birmingham. Yes, it’s a natural progression of globalization but all these above examples involve 1st World industrialised nations and we’re only talking just towns or citites. But on our level we’re talking the whole COUNTRY!!
What do you think will happen when you have 250k Bahamians vs. a flood of 1 million Haitians?
You just can’t encourage or lend incentive to their migration. !!
No, it’s not the children’s fault that they were born here. But they also can’t be rewarded for their parents illegal activites. That’s why, and I repeat, you can give them permanent residency. But NOT the vote.
jackbnimble 9 years, 8 months ago
Well said! Every time Bahamians blog in the negative about this Haitian migration/citizenship issue, there is always one fool in the mix who brings up this American citizenship sh**. We are NOT America. And No! We CANNOT handle it! We do not enter America ILLEGALLY in mass and camp out in their hospitals and schools working illegally and having children! The Haitians who are here legally are in the minority and the ones cussin' for rights are usually second and third generation Haitians whose parents entered this country ILLEGALLY. I agree with the earlier blogs. Even you are going to entertain them for any residency at all give them PERMANENT RESIDENCE and let them carry their backsides to the Haitian Embassy for their passports. Citizenship should not be a right - it's a privilege earned and not earned by breaking the darned law!!!
Beywhatusay 9 years, 8 months ago
Naturalisation is not an incentive for migration. It is giving those who have been in the Bahamas all their lives which is most cases 20-30 years a chance to full contributing members of society and held accountable for the resources that they use. Yes, if you are raised with the influence of one culture you will want to maintain it on some level and hold a special love for it. Be it language, food, or traditions.
Naturalisation does not mean that you create a gateway for any Haitian or foreigner to automatically be given citizenship. The current policies will be amended and those here illegally will be returned.
The Bahamas is not America and we don't have to allow Creole to become a second language.
Emac 9 years, 8 months ago
This is utter BULLSHIT! Every Haitian descendent I know who has been given a Bahamian passport is pro Haitian and they see Bahamians as the enemy. Shit... on Haitian flag day they parade around town showing off the Haitian flag with pride. You never see these people doing the same during the Bahamas Independence. This is just facts. These people could give a shit about the Bahamas. I also know a lot of them who received passports under the former administration for promised votes. This crew laughs at the stupidly of our government. I am sorry but no man can serve two masters. Don't come in this country and use us to get to get a certain status then dump us when you can travel to USA. If this country was poor and destitute like Haiti we wouldn't even be having this argument cause no Haitians would even be here.
lucaya 9 years, 8 months ago
Any party dat tink of trying dat foolishness bout geeing citizen to a bunch of semis,will loose the election,den yinna will know dat Bahamians ain't dumb or stupid like yinna wan us be...
TheMadHatter 9 years, 8 months ago
This is why Obama has a bunch crossing the Texas border right now - because of similarly STUPID statements that he has made over the past couple years.
Why doesn't Chipman simply advocate that the Defense Force SHOOT ALL BAHAMIANS DEAD tomorrow and just give our country to Haiti lock stock and barrel? It will be a more simple and faster process that will achieve the same result in less time.
I didn't know we had anyone quite THAT stupid living in the Bahamas. Wow.
TheMadHatter
Well_mudda_take_sic 9 years, 8 months ago
Chipman is a big time Catholic and it was just a question of time before he started espousing the doctrine or position of the Catholic Church when it comes to their great desire that all Haitians residing in the Bahamas be given Bahamian citizenship if they so wish to have it. Chipman must know that anyone who has ever had a Haitian gardener or handyman working for them will tell you that the Haitian male is extremely aggressively prolific in spreading his seed. Even the 15% of the Haitian male population in the Bahamas that is gay considers it a badge of honour to participate in producing as many Haitian or Bahamian-Haitian offspring as is humanly possible. It is not uncommon to hear of Haitian gardeners, Haitian handymen, Haitian construction workers and Haitian farm workers who have had upwards of a dozen or more of their children borne in the Bahamas, in many instances by three or more women. For the Haitians in the Bahamas it's simply a numbers game they know they can easily win at their social level in our society; indigenous Bahamians just don't stand a chance and the Haitians know it! The Haitian community in the Bahamas celebrated with immense joy when the U.S. State Department recently declared on their official website that the two languages spoken in the Bahamas are English and Creole. Leading politicians of both the PLP and FNM have brought this scourge on the indigenous Bahamian people by granting Bahamian citizenship to thousands of Haitians in exchange for their vote for "the party" that gave them citizenship. The economic drain on our country's limited resources from this blight is incalculable: sky high crime from Haitian youth involved in gangs; a crumbling public education system that only Haitian children can make the most of; severely strained public medical facilities; human smuggling; drug smuggling; arms smuggling; and so on and so on. Even many of our elected officials today have Haitian blood coursing through their body and consequently an ever increasing number of Haitians are ending up in key positions in our very bloated public sector, not to mention our police force and national defense force. Indigenous Bahamians are rapidly headed towards becoming second class citizens in their own country and we all know it but keep voting for the same bozos both the FNM and PLP put before us as candidates come election time! Our Haitian problem will never be addressed until voters back independent candidates not tied to the PLP, FNM or DNA who are not afraid to take a firm stance in public on the need to free ourselves of illegal Haitians whether they be adult or children.
KM 9 years, 8 months ago
This is utter foolishness! How will this better the Bahamas. What will be of the Bahamas if this happens. He need to take a seat in the far right corner and put his fingers on hips lips. He must be insane !! You think we have an immigration issue now, think about how will it be then ?
Bunni 9 years, 8 months ago
Chipman, you are not just talking SHIT you are FULL OF SHIT dear Sir.
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